Shelby On Ovation

[jenkins]

<p>Anyone see The Picture Man Shelby Lee Adams on Ovation Channel last night? Interesting and at times disturbing viewing. He seemed to spend most of his time defending the rights and wrongs of his subject matter, some people said he was portraying the Kentucky Appalachian Folk in a bad/stereotyped way and that he was exploiting them, these views came from outsiders looking at the finished work and not the Appalachian Folk themselves.<br /> As i said i would just be interested to see if anyone else saw it and what they thought.<br /> I really do like his style of Photography, i have no idea how famous he is.<br /> http://shelby-lee-adams.blogspot.com/</p>

[Spearhead]

<p>Is this the same as the documentary about him made a while back? Pretty interesting stuff. he came from there, I'm not sure I feel like he was exploiting them. He wasn't an outsider.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Yes they are replaying the whole series, "The Genius of Photography", I watched the first couple of episodes, but missed the one last night. Caught the Sally Mann episode last time it played. But still haven't caught the one on Shelby Lee Adams. A very interesting series at least what I've managed to see of it.</p>

[jenkins]

<p>Not sure if it was on before Jeff, my knowledge of Photographers is very limited, you are right he did come from the area but the points raised were he was from a wealthy family and was using these people as some kind of meal ticket.<br /> It was pretty alarming to see them dance with snakes as part of their religion especially when one guy got bitten, they really do have a culture all of their own, its like the last century never happened in some parts.<br>

Curtis try and watch it if it comes on again it's a real eye opener, there was quite a bit on photography last night on Ovation.</p>

[tomscott]

<p>Yea, they're on again tonight but it is all episodes I have seen. I wanted to see that one I am just about brain dead and forgot it was on. The snake handlers are still around in the North Georgia Mountains, probably have some around your area as well. You just don't hear about them, they kind of tend to keep to themselves about their Religous practices.<br>

Simon if you really want to check out a great american photographer (or pictorialist), you should check out Edward Curtis, they did a show on PBS about him in the American Masters series: <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/curtis_e.html">http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/database/curtis_e.html</a> Check it out if you get a chance, it'll come on again eventually.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>you are right he did come from the area but the points raised were he was from a wealthy family and was using these people as some kind of meal ticket.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>The problem is that most photographers weren't hog farming and snake charming before they were photographers. Adams is as close as you are going to get to a "local," and he is clearly in a "comfort zone" with most of the subjects. The guy in there whose kids come from his incestuous relationship with his daughter is pretty unlikely to become a photographer.</p>

<p>What I'm saying is that his photos are probably going to be a lot less exploitative than anyone else's. At least he knows the culture and the people. Maybe not the perfect situation, but as close as we may get before they all shop at Walmart and watch Paris Hilton on TV.</p>

[luis_g]

<p> It was the same one aired earlier. Some of the effects thought to be creepy were Adams' earlier ( and clumsier) fill flash efforts. It doesn't matter to me if someone is an insider or outsider. Some of the best documentary pictures made were by "outsiders". What matters is if they're for real. Adams has had the luxury of lots of time to spend with these people, and he is good with people. Great show from Ovation.</p>

[Uhooru]

<p>Jeff, they have t.v.'s? Good points all Jeff. They look to me like these are people that he either knows some of them personally or knows of their lives from his life. This type of interaction was more common in the South in days past then is often thought. Everyone in a rural area, rich or poor, knew each other. His photos reflect his connection to the people and I don't think they glamorize or detract and they don't seem to be anything but a deeply involved work. Some pretty nice photos.</p>

[Spearhead]

<blockquote>

<p>It doesn't matter to me if someone is an insider or outsider.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>I've never seen any great documentary work on this culture by an outsider that was worth anything. You have some examples?</p>

<p>One of the most enlightening, and life-changing, conversations on photography I have ever had was with a great (Aperture books etc) Mexican documentary photographer. He asked how I could ever have an understanding of what was happening in even some of the most basic situations. He asked how I could have access to the more intimate moments that make documentary photography most relevant. He wasn't critical, he even asked for one of my prints, but his points were well-made. I returned from two days with him and changed what I photographed to things I could understand and document inside out. I'm not sure he'd find them worthwhile, it is mostly highly alternative culture, but I am much happier, as he suggested. Documentary photography really has to get inside the subject. "What it looks like from the outside" doesn't cut it. This is why Bravo's (and Iturbide's, and Yampolsky's) photos have so much more to say about Mexico than those by HCB, Strand, Kertesz, all of which seem culturally facile by comparison. It's why Abbas' photos show so much insight into the Muslim world, something that won't be seen elsewhere, and why Keita's portraits tell us more about sub-Saharan Africa than 100 years of NG.</p>

[luis_g]

<p> I understand well what Jeff is saying and there is truth to it, specially with closed subcultures such as the people Adams depicts.</p>

<p> Westerners might presume to understand Keita's portraits because they were taken by an "insider", but to my mind, those images, no matter how "authentic" they may be, are perhaps even _more_ incomprehensible to non-Africans than those taken by outsiders. In this Ovation show, we get a first-hand glimpse of these limits from some of the comments from insiders in photography about Adams' work -- and they are light-years ahead of the average viewer when it comes to visual literacy.</p>

<p> I disagree with the idea that Keita's work tells us more than 100 years of NG-in-Africa. Keita, who's a great portraitist and an insider, had limited, thin-slice access to what is a vast geographical area, but he does present us with a unique perspective. Through NG we also know a lot about what things look like outside Keita's backdrops, too. Everything matters.</p>

<p> The pictures Jeff did in Mexico could be blithely dismissed as "culturally facile", but still remain valid and tell us something about him and Mexico, and I'm glad they were made. Ditto with Alec Soth in Bogota.</p>

<p>Documentary photography has a broad spectrum of approaches. In this age of tight deadlines and tighter budgets, the luxury of time is rare. So, should magazines simply discard all documentary efforts because of the limits involved? Or only hire locals to do documentary work? I don't know.<br>

Was Robert Frank an "American"? Welsh miner? Peruvian Indian? Werner Bischof a Guatemalan? Walker Evans a farmer? Lewis Hine a factory worker? Flaherty an Eskimo? Eugene Richards a crackhead? Dorothea Lange a migrant farmer? None were insiders, all produced memorable bodies of work. Could they have done what they did in a closed subculture like Adams or Larry Clark did in a short time? Probably not, though Mary Ellen Mark managed to get inside the Falkland Rd. business, and shoot it, in 14 months.</p>

<p> Everybody gets a different kind of picture, and sometimes the outsider sees things that the insiders are desensitized to, and can help to visually bridge between the two cultures, even if things are lost in translation.</p>

<p> </p>

[jenkins]

<p>I have never and i probably won't make money out of pictures, if i was Shelby i might question these pictures in the quiet of the night when i was alone, the Shelby Pictures gave me an insight into a quiet secret people, very strange to me and my London culture, i live in America not far from these people in the Appalachians (about 4 hours away), to be honest they scare me a bit and i am not sure why, maybe some of them look strange or hostile, maybe a weakness in me or an unfounded suspicion, i am scared of insanity and i think i saw it in the Shelby Film in some of the people. I can't stop thinking about it but it has made me think.<br>

They seem like a forgotten people in some kind of time warp, wear clothes from another era not part of America, like a lost gypsy tribe. I am intrigued and wary at the same time.<br>

I think i will travel to see these people before i go back home to England in August, i just feel a calling, don't want to sound arrogant and above these people because i'm not, but they are a rare and untouched culture, maybe gone soon.</p>

 

[btipton]

<p >Greetings,</p>

<p >In reference to Shelby Lee Adams' photos. I grew up in the East Tennessee/Southwest Virginia area and I know people who live in similar circumstances as those in Mr. Adams' photographs. I believe there are misunderstandings about the area perpetuated by the media and the crap produced by Hollywood. I've found the people from the Appalachian area to be the most respectful and honest as any group of people I've met since I joined the military and left the area 25 years ago. Because of their respect and honesty the people of that area have been taken advantage of by various companies and unscrupulous people over the years and it's because of those instances the people encountered in the Appalachian area may initially be weary of visitors. I've found if you show honesty and respect you will receive the same and could have steadfast friends for life who are very nonjudgmental. </p>

<p >I don't think Mr. Adams intends to exploit the people, I feel he honestly wants to show the world the people of the Appalachian area (in a sometimes brutally honest way).</p>

<p >My wife isn't from the area and she really enjoys our visits because she has noticed how open and friendly the people in East Tennessee are. If anyone really wants to get a feel for the Southern Appalachian area and people I suggest they pick up "Mountain Hands, A Portrait of Southern Appalachia".</p>

<p >Bob</p>