The new Pentax 645D will help all of us, even if you don't buy one. How? Read on...

yvon_bourque1 · April 2, 2009

Pentaxians are not followers...they are interesting leaders. <a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EO9piAKCkcU/SdRSqx78NQI/AAAAAAAAETU/FxgO7rQztOA/s1600-h/Pentax-645D-2009-Back.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5319967954744128770" src="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_EO9piAKCkcU/SdRSqx78NQI/AAAAAAAAETU/FxgO7rQztOA/s400/Pentax-645D-2009-Back.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a>

<a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EO9piAKCkcU/SdRSkZm_LhI/AAAAAAAAETM/-cIMzWYtdQk/s1600-h/Pentax-645D-Front.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5319967845134577170" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_EO9piAKCkcU/SdRSkZm_LhI/AAAAAAAAETM/-cIMzWYtdQk/s400/Pentax-645D-Front.jpg" border="0" alt="" /></a> Hi Pentaxian friends. Pentax announced the resurrection of the Medium Format 645D SLR and had mock ups displayed at the Photo Imaging Expo (PIE) in Tokyo in March. Although I will probably never have enough disposable income to purchase one, this move will benefit all of us. The price is speculated to be approximately $10.000 for a sensor around 30MP. That's a fair price to pay if you are a Professional photographer. The Medium Format is dominated by just a few companies: Hasselblad, Mamiya, the new upcoming Leica S2, all at prices ranging from $20,000 to $50,000. If Pentax actually produce the 645D and sells it in the $10,000 range, they will once again be the innovators and leaders they once were. Forget the full frame DSLRs, they will by-pass that format all together and go the the top of the line, medium format with 30MP plus. They already have a full line of medium format autofocus lenses. The sensor ratio will be more usable and prints in the 8" x 10", 11" x 14", and 16" x 20" will be easily made without much cropping at all. For us, that use the English measurement system, these sizes are standard and frames already made are found everywhere. The benefits for all of us will be that Pentax will produce a Professional DSLR, and a Medium Format size at that. They will be up there with the Hasselblads, Mamiyas and a few other brands. The word will get around that Pentax has a Medium Format Pro-Level DSLR and that many of the top Pros are using it. The entry-level photographers will buy entry-level Pentax DSLRs, emulating the Pros. They have done that with the Nikon and Canon brands for a while now. In the real world, Pentax will have better image quality than the full-frame DSLRs, just like it was during the film era. Photographers all over the world will live happily thereafter! Pentax will sell more cameras, they will make more money with the APS-C and Medium Format cameras, they will have more R & D money, they will come up with better cameras, and the circle will be unbroken again. Hey...don't laugh, it might just happen that way!

bob_stevenson · April 2, 2009

Yes, it would be nice to see pentax once more in the role of innovator rather than it's current persona of 'me too' ditherer.........

However, the digital 645 is STILL vapourware!! At the PIE they were still unsure about much of the cameras features,...still unsure what type of sensor,..still unsure who would/will make it,...still unsure if an anti-aliasing filter will be an option,...still insure who they are aiming the product at,...still unsure where it will be marketed, etc etc.

The harsh fact is that this thing has been so long coming that it's already on the brink of being out of date before it's even appeared. Even the 30 mil pixels, which seemed good when first mentioned (2 years ago!) is only half of current digital backs.

Yet again we see the attempt to take an outdated camera (and ONLY a camera NOT a system) and, by wedging a sensor inside, try to suggest something new and innovative. Meanwhile the opposition is moving far ahead. Other than a bigger sensor this camera has little to offer other than to those who still have 645 lenses from the film era.

That only leaves price on which to confront the opposition, so the one million yen / 10,000 USD is going to have to drop significantly to go beyond the "estimated 200" sales envisaged by pentax, or even up to it come to that! Other makers second generation digital systems are already appearing and most if not all of them are designed from the ground up for digital imaging.

There is more to a medium format digital system than an old and not particularly well designed camera with a sensor wedged inside,...just take a look at Sinar, Mamiya, Leaf, Phase-one and several others and ask yourself whether pentax should be even trying to launch this camera or whether they should be designing a real system.

14mm 2.8l · April 2, 2009

I don't know Yvon, its hard for me to get enthusiastic about any Pentax gear they announce thesedays. 645D is unspec'd with no official price, no new lens line up, no planned release date. I think Pentax are foolishly passing on full frame K Mount for a cropped medium format dream camera (again). Any idea how they will handle the European Union ban on lead in their 645 and 6x7 existing designs? Pentax will have to scrap their existing lens line up or rely on buyers with glass inhand.

I like buying whats available today, not next year or years from now. I've grew tired of patiently waiting for roadmap dreams to become product choices and thats why I added Canon and then Nikon to my Pentax bag of tools the past 13 months.

The Online Photographer has been having alot of fun at Pentax 645D dream camera expense. I bet he wanted one years ago when it was first announced? <a href="http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/and-lets-not-forget-the-dp2.html" target="_blank">http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/and-lets-not-forget-the-dp2.html</a>

and:

<a href="http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/impress-watch-this.html#comments" target="_blank">http://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2009/03/impress-watch-this.html#comments</a>

Here's an interesting link to medium format 50mp sensor purchase cost in quantity: $3,500 for 48x36 50mp : " Rochester, N.Y. — Eastman Kodak Company has claimed the industry's first 50-megapixel CCD image sensor for the professional photography market, capturing digital images at unprecedented resolution and detail thanks to a newly designed 6.0-micron pixel and several other advances. With an 8176 x 6132 pixel array, Kodak said the KAF-50100 50-megapixel sensor provides the highest resolution available in the popular 48 x 36-mm optical format used in medium format photography...." "...Working with leading camera makers, Kodak's Image Sensor Solutions group focused on several key areas of improvement with the new CCD image sensor design including higher resolution while maintaining dynamic range, reducing noise and faster capture. The result is the company's new TRUESENSE 6.0 micron Full Frame CCD Technology Platform, which increases both the resolution and camera performance. The KAF-50100 is the first Kodak sensor to use the company's new technology...." "....In addition to increasing resolution, they wanted to maintain all other specs including dynamic range. In order to retain the 70-dB dynamic range spec for the device, Kodak had to implement a few other redesigns in the sensor. DeLuca said it required a new amplifier design to help reduce noise and a new four-output architecture, compared to two outputs used in the 39-MP sensor, to help manage the increased quantity of data available from the image sensors, enabling sensor operation at one frame per second (fps) for a 50-megapixel device, and to gain additional bandwidth. This also helps to lower the master clock, which helps further reduce noise, said DeLuca. Kodak also implemented several other performance improvements. A new global reset function, which allows the entire sensor array to be reset using only a single clock pulse, reduces both power consumption (improving battery life in the camera) and the "click to capture" time (now measured in microseconds instead of milliseconds) for improved camera response. Kodak also refined the spectral characteristics of the red pigment to improve color fidelity, allowing sensors based on this new platform to provide richer, more accurate colors. The 50-MP CCD image sensor may be used in other applications including aerial photography. Case-in-point: With a 50-megapixel camera, in an aerial photo of a field 1-1/2 miles across, you could detect an object about the size of a small notebook computer (1 foot x 1 foot). The new 50-MP CCD image sensor has already been designed into Hasselblad's new <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.hasselbladusa.com/promotions/50-promotion.aspx" target="_blank">H3DII-50</a> high-end DSLR camera system, touting the 1 fps capture rate due to the 4-channel readout structure. The H3DII-50 will be available in October 2008. Availability: Engineering grade devices of the KAF-50100 are currently available, with volume production planned for fourth quarter 2008. Pricing: $3500 in volume. Product information: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.kodak.com/global/en/business/ISS/Products/Fullframe/KAF-50100/specs.jhtml?pq-path=13219/13220" target="_blank">KAF-50100</a> "

Hassy 50mp using this sensor priced at $36,000 via special order, link "H3DII-50" above is broken: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597825-REG/Hasselblad_703605575_H3D_II_50_Digital_Camera_Pro.html" target="_blank">http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/597825-REG/Hasselblad_703605575_H3D_II_50_Digital_Camera_Pro.html</a>

See entire text here on 50mp sensor specs and pricing here: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.eeproductcenter.com/passives/brief/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208808672" target="_blank">http://www.eeproductcenter.com/passives/brief/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=208808672</a>

I find it amazing that theres a cutting edge $3,500 sensor in a $36,000 camera. The manufacturers mark up on these medium format platforms is enormous.

ellis_vener_photography · April 2, 2009

Lindy,

the wholesale cost of the base sensor chip is very far from the whole story with any digital camera. it is just the starting point.

andrewg_ny · April 2, 2009

Ellis, that's true but it's also a good dose of reality as to why these things will never sell for $3000 like some might wish for.

Some have been criticizing the lack of an interchangeable back but I'm thinking that Pentax MF has often appealed to nature/landscape photographers who might appreciate the solid one-piece (and hopefully sealed) design. There are also ergonomic advantages, fewer integration challenges and probably cost advantages as well to such a design.

wayne_campbell · April 2, 2009

"The word will get around that Pentax has a Medium Format Pro-Level DSLR and that many of the top Pros are using it. The entry-level photographers will buy entry-level Pentax DSLRs, emulating the Pros. "

Didn't this already happen in the not-too-distant past when Mamiya, Hasselblad, Contax, and Bronica dominated the medium format market? Pentax was there then but they placed a far distant third or fourth. Why will this be any different? Cost? I can'e see myself leaping to buy a "cheap" $10,000 Pentax.

jtk · April 2, 2009

Just as with Leica, Mamiya, Hasselblad and Sinar, the digital back will do better with digital-specific lenses. And just as with Pentax K20D, compatibility with old lenses will hurt new lens sales. And of course, photographers who can finance $10K cameras can finance $50K cameras.

Aa PMA magazine announced a new "darkroom light." Developed for the CIA, you could put it in a household socket and with the flip of the switch it'd suck all the light out of the room. Why did Yvon's post remind me of that...it was dated the day AFTER April 1, after all :-)

mountainvisions · April 2, 2009

Lindy,

Do a little research. The Pentax 35mm f/3.5 (20mm FOV on 645) is actually the best 645 wide angle on the market. This lens actually surpasses Hasselblads wide at I believe (from memory) anything over f/4 or 5.6. And at f/4 it's still sharper in the center. Forget the others, they don't even come close.

Pentax 645 glass not just for the money, but head to head, is superior to the competion, the bodies were superior too. Looking at my 645N and reading the manual, it's pretty clear this thing is going to be no harder to use than a 35mm camera. One you really start comparing 645 systems you realize Pentax not only did put the bulk of it's effort into this system but it really believed it was the system of professionals (along with the 67 which is too big, heavy and clumsy for me to consider but built like a tank, and probably could double as a big wall hammer).

The 645 is amazing in terms of build, and while it cannot be upgraded to digital because of the lack of interchangeable backs (not magazines, backs), it is the most compact of the 645 systems. I also like the fact it imprints exposure data on the film. Sort of the next best thing to EXIF!

The only knock I have is I wish it had a waist level viewfinder, however, this would certainly reduce strength and durability.

I'm pretty confident if Pentax releases the 645D, and people feel like the company is sticking around, it will sell. This is a company with too much heritage and cachet in the 645 (and 67) business to not stir some buzz and sell a few of these cameras.

Wayne, did Pentax place a far distant 4th? I see far more Nat Geo MF images with Pentax 645 than I do those others. I also know personally, or by bios more landscape photogs that shot Pentax than the other MF camera makers. I am thinking you are correct that they placed 4th overall but probably outsold the others for outdoor photographers. Add weather sealing, and better ergonomics than the other 645D makers and I would think there would be a resurgence in interest from the niche they had.

BTW, where is Contax and Bronica? Do they even exist? Business isn't a sprint, it's a marathon. Despite all the short comings Pentax is still around, while many camera companies have fallen to the wayside. Not only that but Pentax still occassionally creates enough buzz as an innovator to remain relevant. I bet Minolta wishes they could have done that, and Contax, and Bronica!

14mm 2.8l · April 2, 2009

Justin, Check out this 9 stich pano with the 35mm posted elsewhere in here 3 weeks ago. Its cropped way down due to being shot with a 1.6x aps-c dslr. Insanely sharp? I sure like this image.

<h1>Pentax 645 MF lens on Canon XSi body</h1>

<a href="http://www.photo.net/photodb/user?user_id=16336">Charles Wood</a> <a href="http://www.photo.net/member-status-icons"></a>, Mar 11, 2009; 10:37 p.m.

I recently purchased an adapter to use my collection of Pentax MF 645 lenses on my Canon bodies. My preliminary results confirmed them to be sharper edge to edge and free from the CA that seem to be common with my wider Canon lenses. I'm posting this nine frame stitch I shot at The Wave last Saturday. The picture itself is fairly unremarkable due to midday light and lack of interesting sky. However if you examine it closely you'll see no CA artifacts. I used a Pentax 645 35mm non-autofocus lens. It is significantly superior to my 17-40mm F4L Canon lens in terms of the completed results.

Large photo attachment: <a href="http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00S/00Sj0t-115135584.jpg"> (The Wave - 9 frames stitched Pentax 645 MF 35mm lens XSi body -- 1298 x 2400 photo) </a>

mountainvisions · April 2, 2009

The 35mm 3.5 is insanely sharp!!! Gonna be the best 20mm lens I ever used for sure!

Very cool shot. Nice talk of the 35mm as well. This is a really good lens, I will post the lens head to head when I find them to the Hassy. Kinda shocking really considering the cost difference, and worse the perception of quality.

john_shriver · April 2, 2009

Hassleblad is taking a rather low markup. Retail prices of 10 times the component cost are normal in electronics. Why? Because you need to amortize the design expense. For instance, all the software in the camera.

godfrey · April 3, 2009

Justin,

I own a P645 with 45 and 75 mm lenses, and have used a borrowed 35mm lens. The 645 35 mm is a wonderful lens ... BUT it doesn't hold a candle to the Hasselblad 903SWC's Zeiss Biogon 38mm f/4.5 in any way, shape or form. I owned, used, and loved one of those too. In fact, that's the only film camera of all the wonderful film cameras I've owned, that I truly miss.

Then again, the 645 Pentax-A 35mm f/3.5 was never priced at $5000+ for the lens like the 903SWC ... ;-)

I hope they do ship the 645D body and that I can afford one. It will be fine with my 45 and 75mm lenses for my purposes. I'd so much rather be doing digital capture than processing film.

michael_kuhne · April 3, 2009

Thanks for the info, Lindy. It demonstrates that Kodak has developed a sensor technology that can pack in more mp of resolution yet preserve DR and lower noise. It is this kind of advancement that will ultimately show up in moderate-price DSLR models. Imagin a 30mp APS-C model, and a 50mp FF model having great DR and very low noise at ISO 6400! Could happen some years hence!

My thinking is that with advancements of that magnitude, IQ in the smaller formats will become so great, there will be even less interest in MF. It is a matter of diminishing returns, which is already starting to surface.

In the meantime, a MF DSLR like this Pentax should attract some interest, and $10,000 is not unreasonable. The D3x costs $8,000. Pentax could simply tool up for its MF lens production, new designs being unnecessary. The dyes are not discarded, I'm sure.

Lens backward non-compatiblity is a bad idea, period. It destroys customer confidence. Like something a modern CEO would come up with to make a short-term bottom line look good, to sell more lenses short term, but then bring a company into danger. Sure, Canon got away with it years ago when going from the big switch- MF to AF, but not since. I think it did give Nikon and Pentax a stronger run. Nikon's better models are still backward compatible, yet their lens sales do well. But they cheaped out with their lower-priced bodies. Lower production cost- the newbe's won't know anyhow.... right. If Pentax had not been backward compatible, I probably would not have stayed with them for digital and would likely be shooting a D80/D300 combo right now.

daniel_tong1 · April 3, 2009

Yvon Bourque I am in full agreement with you. The latest info from official (well not firm though) is that it is under $US10K and only 200 will be out in Japan next yr. I am sure some of the first batch will be heading to N Am to some diehard Pentax fan. And I am sure they are worth it particularly if the run is done and there will not be any more made. Guaranteed it will be commanding a premium in ebay. If my mutual fund and stock are roaring back to 60% of their 07 level, I may go for it. I do not think I will lose too much money or sleep over this Daniel

mountainvisions · April 3, 2009

Godfrey,

I was actually comparing it to the Hassy 40mm IF FLE. Which in some ways should benefit Hassy since it's a bit longer. Like comparing a 24mm to a 20mm.

As you can see though from the data below (<a href="http://www.16-9.net/lens_tests/pentax645_fa35mm.html">found at)</a> , from f/8 the Pentax is clearly on par and better. And while some might disagree, I figure a wide angle lens (21mm effective) is going to be used around f/8-11 anyway.

Like you noted, the price difference sort of favors the Pentax. I think the FA 35mm 3.5 retailed for around $1000 at debut. Considering the 40mm Hasselblad sells used for $1500+ this was a hell of a bargain brand new!

A few other notes for the 35mm, it's the closest focusing 35mm for the 645 format at time of introduction, not sure if this holds true today but again, 12 inches is not too shabby.

<tbody>

<tr>

<td colspan="2" bgcolor="#dddddd">Hasselblad 40mm IF FLE</td>

<td colspan="2" bgcolor="#eeeeee">Mamiya AF 35mm f3.5</td>

<td colspan="2" bgcolor="#dddddd">Pentax FA 35mm f3.5</td>

</tr>

<tr>

<td bgcolor="#dddddd">Centre (lpmm)</td>

<td bgcolor="#dddddd">Corner (lpmm)</td>

<td bgcolor="#eeeeee">Centre (lpmm)</td>

<td bgcolor="#eeeeee">Corner (lpmm)</td>

<td bgcolor="#dddddd">Centre (lpmm)</td>

<td bgcolor="#dddddd">Corner (lpmm)</td>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

<tr>

</tr>

</tbody>

</table>

p_l_jensen · April 4, 2009

"Didn't this already happen in the not-too-distant past when Mamiya, Hasselblad, Contax, and Bronica dominated the medium format market? Pentax was there then but they placed a far distant third or fourth. Why will this be any different? Cost? I can'e see myself leaping to buy a "cheap" $10,000 Pentax."

Huhh?? I believe Contax sold quite litterally a handful of MF cameras. How could that be dominating the market? It quite litterally removed the Contax brand from the face of the earth due to its spectacular failure (they sold one body in my country!).

Pentax was No.1 choice for professional MF landscape and fashion photgraphy world-wide. They had up to 50% marketshare in Japan for MF; the worlds largest MF market. Pentax have the largest MF lens line-up there is. Theres also close to 1 000 000 Pentax MF lenses made; possibly world record....

p_l_jensen · April 4, 2009

Godfrey

The A645/3.5 and the FA645 35/3.5 are two totally different constructions. The latter is universally (it seems) regarded as the best MF wide angle ever....

todd_k. · April 4, 2009

People who criticize Pentax for not making the digital back unit removable need to remember that the whole camera w/sensor is cheaper then just the back from other manufactures. IQ wise this is going to be a real killer camera. For just 2K more then the D3x you get more MP, more Dynamic range, and greater tonality. From a user perspective none of the other MFD digital systems are as user friendly as the 35mm DSLR systems. The 645D seems to blend nicely with now standard Pentax user interface. Of course we all know the reason the 645D is better the the ZD and Fujiblad... The Green Button!

mountainvisions · April 4, 2009

Pal,

The A and FA are that different? Hmm, I will then have to go FA on this lens afterall. I was under the assumption they were the same lens, but I have seen your knowledgable post elsewhere and you clearly know the 645 system, so I'm glad you pointed me in the right direction.

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The new Pentax 645D will help all of us, even if you don't buy one. How? Read on...

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