SB600+reflector, or go ahead and get Alienbees

[zack_mccrory]

<p>Hi Everyone.</p>

<p>I have been reading through quite a bit lately on lighting, and want to make sure my first step is in the right direction</p>

<p>Up untill this point, i have been shooting with two CFL lights with umbrellas. Its working OK, but still leaves a lot to be desired, especially if i want to shoot with more DOF and high (numericly) apertures.</p>

<p>Earlier this week i purchased a D90 with a 28-75 f/2.8 lens. Im sure it will work much better in low light than my previous setup did (D40 with 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 kit lens), but i would like to upgrade my lighting setup to go with the new camera.</p>

<p>I had always had my eye on the Alien Bees setup, such as a pair of AB 400's or AB 800's. Now that i have a D90 that can control SB600's, im also considering that an option.</p>

<p>The type of shooting im doing is primarily indoor glamour/fashion type shots. So far, i have been traveling to the location of the model, and just shooting at their home. Because of this, ease of setup is nice, but access to power isn't an issue... and actually more appealing than having to worry about batteries.</p>

<p>I dont see myself doing many group shots. My primary focus is to get a good setup for full length fashion/glamour shots. I dont think that this will require a tremendous amount of light, im more concerned with quality of light and how easy it is to control (hence why i think if i went the AB route, 400's would best suit me)</p>

<p>So i guess what im asking is... should i got with an Alienbees setup, or a SB600 setup. And once that is decided... should i get two, or get one and a reflector. Im trying to be budget conscious, but can spend the money if i would benefit from it.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p>The type of shooting im doing is primarily indoor glamour/fashion type shots.</p>

<p>Get the Alien Bees. You can shoot faster and more maximum power gives you more options for modifiying the light.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>If you are thinking in terms of full-length shots, and want to be able to handle some of the needs of fashion-style lighting, then you need multiple strobes. If nothing else, you're going to want to be able to provide some controlled light on a backdrop, or some hair/rim lighting to help define shape... this, of course, in addition to key light from out in front. You CAN get started in such things by using a single strobe and the right light modifiers, and probably should, just for educational purposes... but that second one is going to be nagging at you very quickly.<br /><br />For the situations you describe, I'd go with an AB 800. You can turn it down if it's too hot, but you might quickly find the 400 to be low on juice if you're shooting full-length, stopped down, at lower (best quality) ISO settings. As soon as you start using modifiers like softboxes (which eat up some of the light) you'll be all the more glad for the horsepower.<br /><br />For your <em>second</em> strobe, you've got some other considerations. In the studio setting you describe, it's nice to have two of the same. That way it's especially easy to set ratios between them, and it's very easy to predict how they'll behave in relation to each other. Two of the same maker's products (even if you do mix 400's and 800's, for example) allow you to easily share modifiers and other gear between them.<br /><br />That being said, though... you might seriously consider a Nikon SB-800 or SB-900 as your second unit. NOT the SB-600. If for NO other reason, because both of those can be used as simple optical slaves (which can react to the pulse from the AB monolight). The SB-600 cannot do this... it can only slave to the CLS system's more complex pre-exposure flashses from the camera or a controller on the camera. You won't be using CLS/iTTL when shooting fashion - you're going to be setting everything manually. <br /><br />And of course, having an SB-800 or SB-900 also means you have lots of flexibility to shoot under other circumstances (socially, or when you really do need to be completely mobile). <br /><br />Even when you are using the more powerful AB monolight as your main light, an SB-800 or 900 can do a decent job of splashing some light on a backdrop, or providing some highlights on a model's hair, etc. It can't cycle as quickly as an AC-powere monolight, so you have to be a little more thoughtful about what you're asking the speedlight to do for you during an extended shoot - you don't want to cook it. <br /><br />Either way: I would <em>avoid</em> the SB-600. If you have any leanings towards more carefully controlled shooting and lighting - which you obviously do - the SB-600 is a trap. Don't do it.</p>

[zack_mccrory]

<p>Thanks for the detailed reply.<br>

<br><br>

I was trying to find examples of shots taken with say... one flash and one reflector vs 2 flashes (be it strobes or monolights... i dont think there would be much of a difference in the look of the photo)<br>

<br><br>

Can anyone post up some good examples of quality photos taken with a single flash?  I think that would really help me determine if i could get the results i wanted with one, or if two would be immediately necessary.</p>

[zack_mccrory]

<p>Can you go into more detail about how this photo was taken? I know a puppy is much smaller than a person, so some things would change... but its a good example of a very quality, full, lighting look that i would like to be able to achieve.<br>

<a href="../photo/8662313">http://www.photo.net/photo/8662313</a></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>Head over to the <strong><a href="http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/Lighting_Lessons/index.html">Photoflex Lighting School</a></strong> site. Obviously, they're pitching their equipment, so the lessons they give are built around their particular hardware. But the principles apply, regardless. <br /><br />Specifcally, look through the <strong><a href="http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/Lighting_Lessons/Basic_Lighting/Portrait_Indoor/index.html">indoor portrait examples</a></strong> under their basic lighting lessons section. You'll see what happens as they add one, two, etc lights and modifiers to different scenes. You'll get an immediate sense of how these things start to play a role.</p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>You flatter me, Zack! Here's a set shot from that shoot, with the lights rigged up pretty much as they were used:<br /><img src="../general-comments/attachment/14814003/lighting_rig.jpg" alt="" width="500" height="333" /><br /><br />So, you've got one big diffuse light source in front of the subject, another that's camera-right to fill some shadows, and then (top left), a third strobe that's providing a little rim light... which you can actually see reflected off of the end of the pup's nose in the example you linked to.<br /><br />Notice (in the <strong><a href="../photo/8662313">shot in question</a></strong>) that the backdrop is lit in a way that gradually gets hotter from top to bottom. That's a result of letting the right hand softbox get more over head, and angling it to provide more of a puddle of light on the subject. Using exactly the same strobes, but changing the ratios and aiming the softbox a bit differently, we get <strong><a href="../photo/8658888&size=lg">this more high-key look</a></strong>. Then, using exactly the same lights, but switching things around a bit (different modifiers, mostly) and putting up black seamless paper instead, like this:<br /><br /><img src="../general-comments/attachment/14811216/reverse_set.jpg" alt="" width="333" height="500" /><br /><br />... we can get a <strong><a href="../photo/8653000">different feel out of a very similar subject</a></strong>.<br /></p>

[Matt Laur]

<p>And just to drive the point home... positioning and modifying the light sources is a huge, huge part of what makes the end results more appealing. The more flexible your modifiers, and the easier it is to position and shape the light sources and adjust their relative power, the less messing around you'll have to do in post production. <br /><br />Here's the same two pups, seconds apart. All I did was adjust the ratio of the power between the same three light sources.</p><div></div>

[zack_mccrory]

<p>Very informative indeed!</p>

<p>Why is it the things i like, always end up being the most expensive, hah.</p>

<p>After going to the Photoflex website, and looking at your examples, it seems like im going to need a huge softbox. They offer a 7' octabox (used in their example that i liked the most), and i like the effect even more once they added a grid to it (love the darker background and lighter subject)</p>

<p>Do i have any alternatives to a large softbox, that may be a little more budget friendly? I thought i remembered reading somewhere, that i can hang up a white sheet the height of the subject, and shoot my light through that to get a very even diffused look.</p>

<p>In this link, look at figure 21 and 22 towards the end. <a href="http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/Equipment_Lessons/Soft_Boxes___Strobe/OctoDome3/Using_Grids_7ft._OctoDome3/index.html">http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/Equipment_Lessons/Soft_Boxes___Strobe/OctoDome3/Using_Grids_7ft._OctoDome3/index.html</a></p>

<p>Is there a way i can use a single say... AB 800 with their 30" x 60" softbox... and use my CFL lights as a side and hair light? Or does it not work that way? </p>

 

[Matt Laur]

<p>The big octabox really throws the light around, no question.<br /><br />You can get a foldable giant softbox from Alien Bees for $160, and then add the matching grid for $55. Not bad... especially since you can get a discount off of that when you order them at the same time as a strobe (one strobe, 5% off all accessories... two strobes, 10% off, etc - up to 20% off).<br /><br />Don't forget that when you're working with larger modifiers like that, you definitely need a sturdy stand, and ideally a sandbag or some other home-brew counterweight to help keep things steady - especially if you're working around moving people, and especially kids.<br /><br />Oh, and about that dark background - you can always make a big difference by increasing the distance between your subject and the background, and then using a longer lens (with you moving farther back) in order to keep the subject visually within the background.</p>