Cameras and Guns.

[patrick j dempsey]

<p>The other night I was showing my new Pen FT to a friend and they said that the weight and the smooth mechanical action reminded them of a Remington. At first I thought it was a funny thing to say... I'm not a "gun person" and quite frankly, they freak me out a little bit. But the more I think about it, the more I think I understand what he means. I've heard people say that they own some weapons specifically because they are well-made machines, a thing of art in a way. I also started reflecting on how many members of this forum are former military. Obviously, a camera and a gun are two completely different machines with two completely different purposes, but do any of you feel the same satisfaction cleaning off your weapon after going to the shooting range as you do cleaning your camera after a "shoot"? </p>

[tony_perez]

<p>I think my passion for classic cameras grew out of my passion for classic weapons, specifically my collection of "Curious and Relics" which are basically rifles from WWII and earlier. With both collections I get a kick out of trying to find out the history of the item, how many were produced, from what time periods, etc. With my rifles I only target shoot and as that has become more and more restrictive, I started gravitating to cameras. So, instead of taking my ol' Russian (I guess you could say FSU) Mosin Nagant rifles to the range, I grab a Kiev or Fed and head to the street. Instead of loading ammunition to shoot an old Enfield or Mauser, I now find myself developing film and working in the darkroom. Very similar passions I guess.<br>

Oh, and I think fit and finish of my Pen FT actually reminds me of an old Swedish Mauser... very smooth.</p>

 

[riffeym]

<p>I most certainly do.<br>

As you described, a gun and a camera are just that, a machine. Most people will appreciate a fine machine whether it is a car, camera or a weapon. I own many guns and find the sport of shooting quite pleasurable just as I do using fine stereo equipment or taking pictures.<br>

It is about the mastery of the machine. That is what we try to attain - whether it is the perfect picture or the prefect score at the range and I get the same feeling of accomplishment from either.<br>

Mike</p>

[robert lee]

<blockquote>

<p>The other night I was showing my new Pen FT to a friend and they said that the weight and the smooth mechanical action reminded them of a Remington.</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Good observation.</p>

[User_4525289]

<p>Yeh-yeh-yeh. Espesially if it is mount on the gun platform. Like those photosnipers.<br>

http://www.photohistory.ru/1207248179841091.html</p>

 

[jdrose]

<p>Absolutely. Fine Cameras, Fine Firearms and Fine Watches. All a wonderful joy of mechanics and precision.</p>

[ronald_moravec1]

<p>One may not appreciate guns in general, but they are just like cameras. Some are fine target pistols , others fit my hand like like no other ( German Lugar ). A Leica is a precision tool be it a M, R, or screwmount. A Nikon FE2, which I just bought, is a clap trap machine akin to a "meat gun" or cheap hunting rifle. My D700 is not like it at all. </p>

[longname]

<p>I've always felt that guns and film cameras were the pinnacles where all of humanity's best works and knowledge (mathematics, optics, chemistry, mechanics, production, physics, even philosophy etc.) meet.<br>

Notice I said film camera... :)</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>Indeed, fine machinery is of a kind of value, regardless.<br>

The ones that fascinate me are the 19th century cameras that were made in the shape of actual revolvers or even rifles. Just when was it ever the case that you could disguise a camera by making into a gun that you would point at somebody? They must have been comforted to think that no one was taking their picture, merely pointing a weapon at them. ;)</p>

[david_barts2]

<blockquote>

<p>Just when was it ever the case that you could disguise a camera by making into a gun that you would point at somebody? They must have been comforted to think that no one was taking their picture, merely pointing a weapon at them. ;)</p>

</blockquote>

<p>That sounds exceptionally dangerous! A person about to be "shot" with such a camera would be likely to believe he's about to be shot with a firearm, and if he's armed himself, likely to shoot the photographer.</p>

[longname]

<p>The Japanese actually had a spy camera that was shaped like a pistol the idea being that it could be used like a decoy gun... kind of like pulling a knife in a gunfight... except a camera in this case. You'd think that a spy would either avoid having anything that looked like a gun, or just carry a gun.</p>

[Rick_van_Nooij]

<p>Cool Link Kozma,</p>

<p>My collection of cameras grew out of my collection of classic firearms too...though not because of their mechanical qualities but because they are from the same era. WW2 mainly.<br>

a 1943 M1 Garand<br>

a 1943 M1 Carbine<br>

a 1942 M1903 (made be Remington, one of the last before they switched production to M1903A3 and A4s)<br>

3 Mosin Nagants (Sniper, M1938 Carbine and the regular infantry rifle) all WW2 vintage<br>

a M95 Steyr Mannlicher Carbine<br>

And there's a M1870 Beaumont rifle currently undergoing restoration in my garage</p>

<p>Here's an interesting gun camera<br>

<img src="http://i252.photobucket.com/albums/hh26/NUBINA/guncamera.jpg" alt="" width="720" height="514" /><br>

The Hythe gun camera used 120 film; the 'gun' punched a hole in the film to indicate the magazine had been replaced between trigger pulls. It was used during training flights to measure gunnery accuracy of the observer.<br>

Some more info <a href="http://www.forumeerstewereldoorlog.nl/viewtopic.php?t=17643">here</a></p>

[nickc1]

<p>Guns don't normally worry me - I used to rough shoot, but the nearest thing to the plastic build of my Nikon D40x is probably one of those plastic covert weapons for passing unseen through airport X-Ray machines - Now that IS scary!</p>

[michael_dimarzio]

<p>Nick, you have a point there, I always carry my 40mm Bofors with the X-Ray proof handle through airports. The rounds are little large, it helps when I wear my Bill O'Reilly disguis.</p>

[james_wheeler1]

<p>The romance of history? A handshake across time? An appreciation of fine tools. All good reasons for owning classic cameras and firearms. There is a lot to be said for holding and using a tool that someone used 100 years ago and appreciating the history of the item.<br>

We have a darkroom and a reloading room. My wife and I use and appreciate a wide range of classic cameras, some of which use long-discontinued film and we must adapt, cut, and/or reload cassettes for. We also use classic, often antique firearms that use long discontinued ammunition that we must reload for. A collection of antique woodworking tools in our shop reminds us of the time before power tools, batteries, computers, Ipods, etc. We also us modern tools, even digital cameras and semi-automatic firearms. Celebrate diversity of all sorts!<br>

Today, I plan to load some 5x7 film holders for our beautifully preserved Conley camera and wander into the cold and snow to experiment. By the same token, I may take one of our rifles captured by the Finns from the Russians during the Winter War and fire a few rounds from a snow-covered hillock on our firing range. History is more fun and interesting if you relive just a bit of it at a time. <br>

No, I don't plan to give up our computers, home theaters, antibiotics, etc. As a cancer survivor, I can fully appreciate modern medical techniques and life-saving measures. <br>

Don't give up modern advances, but appreciate the past and all it has brought us.</p>

[k5083]

<p>Can't say I care much for guns, but I appreciate the technical similarities. Jurgen Kreckel, master folder fixer, formerly built reproduction vintage firearms. From the guns I've handled, I'd say they mostly lack the fine delicacy of precision of cameras. Not surprising considering the physical forces they have to harness. Similarly cameras don't have the fine delicacy of watches. For my taste, guns are a little too big and rough, watches too fine and fiddly, and cameras are just about right. </p>

[rustys pics]

<p>There is indeed more than a passing similarity. I can remember when my dad taught me to shoot a rifle at age 10. Couldn't hit anything more than 20 feet away. Then he taught me how to "breathe with it" as the trigger is pulled. I still use that technique today when taking photographs with telephoto lenses or slow shutter speeds.<br>

It sure would be fun to collect those old WWI or WWII rifles! Can't afford them these days. So I'll buy another Exakta.</p>

[timwitt]

<p>And the Brown Hat says- That's the wrong answer Private, it's a rifle, it's a pistol, at the very least it's a firearm but it's not a gun. Y'all damn recruits, don't know s*** but I do. I'm gonna make soldiers out of every one of you or your a** is mine.</p>

<p>My brother had a Finn captured Mosin-Nagant, I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it but at 4 meters you could make a car battery disintegrate. I bought my own years later and found it to be accurate. Maybe the only difference was 13 years old with his and 33 years old with mine. I think a nice feel good in your hand pistol is my .22 Hi Standard model B. Even though my .32 ACP, CZ model 27 (mfg. during occupation) is not considered anything special, it is still special to me, my father returned from Europe in 1945 with it, an extra barrel and extra clip. It was crated with many others in cosmoline and unused. I still have the official "permission" form allowing my father to take it home, signed by an officer and a nice leather holster for pistol and extra clip that a German leather craftsman made for my father.</p>

<p>Fine firearms, watches, tools, coins.....absolutely fine cameras. It's you guy's fault that I'm looking to buy a rangefinder...........or two..........or three. When will it ever end??</p>

<p> </p>

[james_wheeler1]

<p>Russ. If you know where to look, a WWII rifle can be bought for well under 100 USD (Soviet Mosin Nagant M91/30). <br>

Trigger control and telephoto lenses pair nicely. We have a Photosniper that responds very well to breath control, but seems to startle some people. One asked if it was a rocket launcher and I have to admit to a bit of temptation before telling him the truth. To do otherwise would have been risky. A game warden attempted to arrest one friend who was using a Photosniper to photograph moose.</p>

 

[JDMvW]

<p>Yes, the Hythe was for gun training on WWI arircraft. I understand it was copied elsewhere. Apparently the Japanese cameras made in pistol shape (Doryu and <a href="http://www.camerapedia.org/wiki/Mamiya_Pistol">Mamiya</a> ) were made for police purposes, not for training, but for use for quick photos in riots.<br /> Other "gun-shaped cameras" can be found at (<a href="http://www.oobject.com/category/14-cameras-that-look-just-like-guns/">link</a> ), but I have not yet come upon the particular 19th c examples that I first referred to.<br /> Nowadays, imagine trying to use any of these, even a normal camera mounted on a rifle-type stock, in an airport, say.</p>

[longname]

<p>Thanks for the links JDM, but the pistol cameras weren't the Doryu or the Mamiya. I read of it in a pisotl book a while ago. It was from the '30s or '40s from what I remember. I've been trying to find it again.<br>

here's a sweet link for the Leica fans:<br>

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/leica-gun-camera-appeals-to-triggerhappy-photographers-224659.php<br>

I think the camera body screws into the end of the "scope", I think. Looks like you need 3 hands to work it.</p>

[tomscott]

<blockquote>

<p>Guns don't normally worry me - I used to rough shoot, but the nearest thing to the plastic build of my Nikon D40x is probably one of those plastic covert weapons for passing unseen through airport X-Ray machines - Now that IS scary!</p>

 

</blockquote>

<p>You are joking right. There never was a gun that could pass thru x-ray machines undetected. This was urban myth, even pistols with polymer frames have steel barrels and chambers, they haven't invented the plastic yet that could withstand that amount of pressure.</p>

<p>But back to the question at hand, I do appreciate a well made firearm. I have a collection of Rifles and Pistols but, not as extensive as my camera collection. Not yet anyway.</p>

[richard_oleson]

<p>If you've visited my website, you may know already that my father was a Gun Person. He collected, engraved, restored and made custom stocks for guns, we went to target shoots every month and camera shows several times a year. We didn't hunt, and he told me what he loved about guns most was the fine workmanship and mechanical precision that existed almost nowhere else.</p>

<p>I bought my first old camera at a gun show with my dad, looking for something of similar mechanical interest that wasn't potentially lethal. It was a Kodak Brownie regular 8mm movie camera, not quite the equivalent of a Browning but it was a start, and I still have it. I have Leicas and Contaxes and Rolleis now, and some of Dad's guns, and the sense of quality, precision and mechanical genius is much the same. But I really can't use the guns, and I can take the cameras out whenever I want and shoot them... and that was kind of my point back in the beginning.</p>

[sw12dz]

<p>I don't own any firearms, but if someone were to break into my home, I'd hit them with my Argus brick!</p>

[JDMvW]

<p>All my guns are locked away so securely that I could never get to them in time, but that's a great use for an Argus C-3.</p>

<p>Another candidate for self-defense is a nice Pentacon 6. I am unable to find a link, but one of the Soviet cameras was used as a hammer in an emergency on the Mir space station. It's just a short hop from that to Thor's hammer!</p>