First Meter. reflective or incident? convenient or not?

[jameshaskins]

<p>hello all,</p>

<p>i just bought my first hand held luna pro sbc meter. My AE metering prism for the Bronica sq-ai didnt cut it for me. so im going hand held. a few questions.<br>

Is it convenient when shooting anything but landscape? it seems like it would take a lot of time to make the reading then put down the meter, adjust the dials on the camera, point, focus and shoot. where as with a camera including a built in meter, you just point and turn the dials while you decide the shot to take. so for street,or travel photography it seems difficult.....am i wrong?<br>

Then there is reflective and incident lighting. i dont understand which to use and when. and i dont understand how you can see what your metering if your not looking through an eye hole like on the in-built camera meters.<br>

thanks for you help!<br>

james </p>

[jack_fisher1]

<p>James,<br>

You have a good meter, capable of a lot in light measuring. You should read the instruction manual carefully, which should answer all your questions, as well as give you a short education on the reasons, and methods for light measurement. If you don't have a manual, you can find one here:<br>

<a href="http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/luna-pro_sbc/luna-pro_splash.htm">http://www.butkus.org/chinon/flashes_meters/luna-pro_sbc/luna-pro_splash.htm</a></p>

<p>Jack</p>

[ronald_moravec1]

<p>Reflective light meters can`t compensate for light/dark subjects or colors. When they see a white object they think there is more light than actually exists. When they see a dark one, they under estimate the light. The photographer is the forced to alter the readings he sees based on experience. For exanple, new white cross lighted snow, decrease the reading by 1.5 to 2 stops or you get grey snow. </p>

<p>An incident meter reads the light falling on the subject and little or no compensation is required. However if you can not get the meter in the same place or in similar light to the subject, the meter has less value. Unfortunately it is to hard to build an incident meter into a camera. </p>

<p>A spot meter with intelligently applied readings works when you can not get the meter into the correct light. A nice sunset, meter the reds and yellows over expose 1 stop. </p>

<p>Each color has its own reflectance that must be taken into account with a reflected meter. Middle grey, no change. Spring grass is different than dry spring/fall grass. Blue shies vary by a lot.</p>

<p>If you were to scan a color patch board, you would find each color gives a different reading yet you know there is but one correct reading for the card.</p>

[ellis_vener_photography]

<p>I'd get a meter that combines bot hincident and spot reading capabilities, as well as flash reading capabilities in mode modes. I have a (now discontinued) Sekonic L-558r which does that and it is great. One way the spot function works wel lis to meter the darkest area which you wantto retain detail in , add it to memory , and then do the same for the high light area you wantto retain detail in. You can themn look at the spread and then either use the calculated average or bias that result one way or another for the visual effect you want to create. Either way, you start the entire photogrpahic process from making the exposure to making the print better informed .</p>

<p>Incident meteringworks great for those times when you can place the meter in the same light as the subject.</p>

<p>Before the Sekonic I needed two meters to do these jobs -A Minolta Spotmeter F and a Minolta Flash Meter V. I replaced both with the Sekonic and now that Minolta no longer exists if I had to have these older meters repaired I'd be out of luck.</p>

<blockquote>

<p>Is it convenient when shooting anything but landscape?</p>

</blockquote>

<p>Yes. I still use my meter for portraits, architectural work ,still life, and some reportage /street work -- just not as much with my high end D-SLRs.<em> </em> You get very fast with the process pretty quickly. Also you learn your general settings for many common situations and use the meter to fine tune your intuition. On the other hand don't be a slave to your meter or to so called "technically correct" meter readigns and exposure settings especially if you shoot transparencies or slides.</p>

 

[SCL]

<p>First, hopefully your handheld meter has both modes, incident and reflected, letting you make a conscious choice as the situation demands...i'm fortunate, as mine does. Having said that, I typically meter in the incident mode when using this meter. Of course the meters in my cameras use reflective mode.<br>

I think a little reading on your part will clearly distinguish the pros and cons of each method, but nothing succeeds like success itself, and I encourage you to sacrifice one roll of film to convince you of what works best for you in most of your work. Keep notes of the meter readings, how and what you measured plus any adjustments you made. You'll have a viable tool for learning which you can refer to later as you need. Make sure you use both incident and reflective readings.<br>

While it sounds complicated, recall that most photographers until the 1960-70s didn't have or use meters at all, they used the manufacturer supplied guides which came with film, replicating the sunny 16 (or 11) rule. Often, when I am shooting outdoors, I'll take an incident reading at the start, and as long as the light doesn't change, neither does my exposure...no rocket science there. If clouds move in I may open my aperture 1 stop or so...again no rocket science here. OTOH if I move into shadows and deem shadow detail to be important I'll typically take another reading and keep it until I move to a change in light. I think, generally, reflective readings, as Ron indicates, require too much interpretation or correction, and I want to concentrate on other factors. With digital, you can always look at the histogram and reshoot. But with film I like to nail the exposure or at best bracket one stop.</p>

[bob_osullivan]

<p>It's basically an incident meter. But it looks like it might have an attachment to allow spot metering at two angles as well. But we know your Bronica has a spot meter.</p>

<p>What did you mean by it's not cutting it for you? Is it not working properly, or do you have trouble understanding how to use it? In any case, this built in Bronica meter can be your spot and the Luna can be your incident meter.</p>

<p>Unless you are shooting chomes, all this may be less critical. B&W and Color Negative film are very forgiving of exposure.</p>

<p>I find it useful to use both and compare, maybe average, the results. Keep in mind all the statements above regarding snow, being in the shade ect. </p>

<p>Another useful trick, when using spot mode outside, is to point the meter directly at a clear blue sky. Not the sun, and not white clouds, just a nice patch of blue sky. This will almost always yield a dead on exposure of an outdoor scene. Very userul for beach or snow.</p>

[bob_sunley]

<p>Ronald Moravec wrote:<br>

"Unfortunately it is to hard to build an incident meter into a camera."</p>

<p>Nikon managed to do it way back in 1962, way before TTL metering was in use. I have one, it works quite well. :)<br>

see: http://www.mir.com.my/michaeliu/cameras/nikonf/ffinders/fmeterprism.htm<br>

Right hand photo, the incident cover is shown screwed onto the front of the CdS cell.</p>

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

<p>You only need to re-meter when the lighting changes. So I often only take a few meter readings a day - unless I'm shooting sheet film and plan to adjust development for each sheet individually.</p>

[bob_osullivan]

<p>Bob S wrote; <br>

"Nikon managed to do it way back in 1962, way before TTL metering was in use. I have one, it works quite well."<br>

Come to think of it my Yashika TLR has one two. Spot on Accurate. </p>

[jameshaskins]

<p>wow great answers and exaples. my bronica works, but sometimes goes a bit crazy. i think my best option would be to get the attachement to haver the 15° "spot". also because i want to measure more parts of the same shot (a bit zone system). for example a close up portrait of just the face and shoulders. id like to measure the backround, then the eyes and shoulders. then i would make my average. as for street or travel photography i wouldnt have the time, so it would be a quick reading then shot. i think understanding more or less what readings to do in certain situations is usefull. otherwise a bit of practice rolls. i still have trouble understanding what the meter is measuring if there is no eyehole to look into. and thanks!</p>

[g._armour_van_horn]

<p>For street photography, you are probably in the same light as the subject, so you can just hold your arm out toward the subject and point the meter back at your face.</p>

<p>If your Bronica meter is giving you fits, it's probably because a reflective meter is only really authoritative if your subject happens to be a Kodak grey card. If the scene doesn't just happen to be 18% grey, the exposure will be wrong. Fortunately, most of the world is 18% grey. Using an incident meter or a spot meter will help you understand the situations in which the reflective meter is giving you the wrong answer, and you'll be able to look at a scene and have a pretty good idea if this is a scene where you can trust your relective meter or not. Before you know it, you'll be able to come damned close to the right compensation.</p>

<p>Tie the lanyard around your wrist. When you want to meter, whip the meter up and catch it, take your readings, and just drop the thing. It's not heavy enough to damage your arm, and meters aren't particularly fragile now that we don't have jeweled analog meters involved.</p>

<p>I use a Minolta AutoMeter IVf, and I found a 10-degree spot meter attachment for it. I don't think anything with a 10-degree angle of view has any business claiming to be a spot meter, but it has helped me in a few situation, notably sunsets when I wanted to meter off the clouds a few degrees away from the sun itself. I suspect I will also dig up a true spot meter later this year, by which I mean one of those pistol-grip meters with a 1-degree angle. But for now, the incident meter combined with the reflective meter in the camera and a certain amount of chimping when I'm shooting digital work like a charm</p>

<p>Van</p>

[albert_richardson1]

<p>I also have a Gossen Luna Pro SBC meter I have had for many years. It has given me excellent service in part because it uses an ordinary 9 volt battery.<br>

The viewing angle for the meter field of view is 30°. You will want to compare the meter field of view with the lenses you use to make sure that they see as much of the same thing as possible in the field. Built-in camera metering systems solve this for you, but now you must do the best you can yourself to make sure that you don't lose shots because you took a meter reading for one thing and got a shot of another. I just make a Google search for 'drafting angle template' and found a site 'camera angle template' would have found more directly. It illustrates a paper template you can easily make for your meter and lenses to see how they compare before you go into the field.<br>

The template you make will show you how well what your lens sees corresponds with your meter, but there is more to the story. You must take to heart the practice and discipline of making sure that once you get in the field, your camera and meter both see the same thing. Aiming the meter a few degrees too high or too low may be enough to throw your exposure off the mark. A simple device you can make for your camera will help. It is nothing more than a piece of metal roughly 1/32" thick, 1 1/2" wide and 6" long. A 1/4" hole in one end allows you to place it under your camera using its tripod mounting hole. You can bolt it on for handholding or put it between the camera and tripod for stationary use. Your LP SBC meter has a nice flat bottom. Use your metal accessory to steady the meter beside the camera to make sure to aim it down the center line of your lens. Naturally you can give up the "training wheels" when you get to the point that you can get it right every time without assistance.<br>

Longer lenses have a more narrow field of view than normal and wide angle lenses. There are two Gossen attachments you can buy for you meter to reduce its viewing angle. The Variable Angle Attachment allows you to choose between a 15° and a 7.5° view. It has a twin lens viewer design that allows you to see what the meter sees except when parallax gets in the way of closeup work. This feature could eliminate the need for the metal plate I described above. This attachment is not very expensive. Some people call it a 'spot meter attachment,' but from Gossen's perspective it is not quite that.<br>

Gossen made another accessory, a "Multibeam Spot Attachment," that has a SLR viewer built into it you would like to have. (no parallax) It looks somewhat like a monocular with a slot in the side used to attach the LP SBC to it. You can adjust it to see 10°, 5° and 1° angles. The 1° angle lets you select spots for averaging according to the principles of a zone system you want to follow. This attachment is expensive even now. To check my story, I just found a used one on e-bay for $219 USD.<br>

Good luck. I hope this helps you.</p>

[jameshaskins]

<p>great great..thanks guys. gonna go out and try..</p>