Taking photographs of architecture in low light.

[cmraynor]

Hi everyone. First let me just say that I love photo.net, I spend hours reading through the forums. I have found

answers for most of my questions just by using the search feature.

 

I am going to be going to Europe two more times this year (London and Barcelona), and I anticipate being confronted

with similar situations as I have been in the past; beautiful architecture inside buildings with low light and no flash

allowed. So my action plan is to use my brand spankin new 50mm f/1.8 nikkor lens on my D80, shoot in Aperture

priority mode, and raise ISO as necessary. Is that correct? I will not be bringing a tripod with me on either trip, so

everything will be shot hand holding. My only concern is about raising the ISO. After reading a book (The Digital

Photography Book by Scott Kelby) I have had a fear about raising the ISO, and have left it at 100 on my camera for

the past few months. But reading the forums, most people comment that raising the ISO will not noticeably affect

the outcome. Does anyone have input as to if raising the ISO will decrease the quality of the images, and if not, is

there a reason Kelby is against using a higher ISO?

[James G. Dainis]

You still should get acceptable photos up to 400 ISO. Higher than that you you may start to get grain. But, is it better to have photos with some grain or no photos at all?

[john clark]

James hits it on the head: grain is not always desirable but is better than no image at all...

[martijn_houtman]

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I'd say on most camera's you will be fine up to 800 iso, some camera's allow you to shoot up to 1600 or even 3200 with

very little noise. It all depends on what you are going to do with the final image (web, digital medium, print, ...).

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A few things: what camera do you use? If it has a small sensor, 50 mm does not sound wide enough (I believe on a

Nikon crop it will be 75 mm?). And at f/1.8 you will have a very shallow DOF, probably not ideal for interior shots.

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How about buying a 'gorillapod' or something alike? They are relatively cheap and small enough to take with you in your

bag.

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[mike_earussi1]

If you can afford any kind of a VR lens that would help you a lot. Also ISO 800 should be fine if you don't plan on making large prints.

[lex_jenkins]

Crank up that ISO. Find some improvised support - lean your body against a wall, etc. Squeeze the shutter release carefully to minimize camera-induced motion blur. Practice now before your trips.

 

Don't worry too much about noise at higher ISOs. First choose the shutter speed you can hold without blur, then set the ISO to suit conditions. If you can handhold steadily at 1/15th second at ISO 800, go for it. If not, 1/30th at ISO 1600 will help you capture that memory, even if it involves some compromises.

 

You can always use noise reduction software later to minimize high ISO noise. Careful application of noise reduction software to individually treat chrominance and luminance noise will help preserve fine detail while minimizing blotchy discoloration.

 

A couple of factors to keep in mind when cranking up the ISO:

 

1. You'll lose some dynamic range. This might involve sacrificing some highlight detail.

 

2. Be very careful to avoid underexposure. While we can get away with moderate underexposure at lower ISOs, digital cameras are completely unforgiving of underexposure at higher ISOs. As little as 1/3 EV underexposure can be too much and may boost noise to ugly levels.

[davidmoore]

Things to consider:

 

As stated above, 50mm on a crop sensor camera will not give a very wide field of view for architectural interiors, although it will be good for closer shots of architectural features and details. Consider buying an older manual focus wide angle lens. Auto-focus isn't really a necessity for interiors and such, and older primes can be had for a reasonable price. I'm not a Nikon expert, but I believe many older Nikkor lenses will work on your D80. A fast 24mm would be just the thing to have along for interiors, as well as exteriors and landscapes.

 

Although your 50mm/f1.8 will give you lots of sensitivity in low light, you may have some problems with shallow depth of field shooting wide open. Consider whether foreground and background objects will be in focus in each composition.

 

Don't worry too much about increased noise at higher ISO. You should be good up to at least ISO400 with your camera, and possibly higher. Experiment with higher ISO before your trip--you may be surprised how well your camera performs.

 

Aperture priority mode is okay if you watch your shutter speed carefully. But if you're going to that trouble, might as well shoot in manual or shutter priority mode. Minimizing camera shake is your main concern, and watching your shutter speed is essential. Also, have a look at the auto-ISO feature of the D80. I believe (correct me if wrong) you can set a range of acceptable ISO and allow the camera to adjust as needed.

 

Make yourself a string tripod (google it for instructions) and practice with it before your trip. It works, and fits in a pocket!

 

Use your camera's histogram feature to evaluate exposures. Available light interiors typically have an enormous range of light, and will often lead to metering errors. The histogram feature turns your camera into an extraordinary light meter--but only if you know how to interpret it. Lots of tutorials about histograms on line.

 

Shoot RAW+JPG, and take lots of memory cards. A near-miss exposure or difficult mixed-light white balance can often be recovered in RAW. With JPG, it's not so easy.

 

Have a great trip!

[arie_vandervelden1]

Be aware that 50/1.8 will only get you detail shots.

 

I've shot some nice interior architecture shots with my Sigma 10-20 by placing the camera on a ledge, a pew, anything like that, and using the self-timer or cable release (better in churches - no beeping) for long exposures.

 

You can lay the camera flat on its back for roof shots. A little bean bag can help to support the camera. I use a ziploc with almonds in it. You can eat the almonds when you're hungry.

[cmraynor]

Thanks for all the comments. In all honesty I’m not really sure what “grain” and “noise” is, or rather how it affects the final product. I think this weekend I’ll shoot with all different ISO levels and see if I can notice any sort of differences.

 

Good idea on the small travel tripod, I will pick one of those up. And the bag of almonds is genius!

 

I do have a 18-200mm VR lens, but my thought process was that it would be better to shoot at f/1.8 on the prime lens without VR, rather than shooting at f/3.5 or higher with the VR lens. But I wasn’t thinking about Depth of Field (newbie mistake!). Any thoughts on if it would be better just to use the VR lens at 18mm or higher around f/3.5 +? Or is it just the type of thing where I should try it both ways and see which way works better?

[colin carron]

I suggest your best bet is to take your camera into any reasonable sized building near you and try all these permutations out for yourself. Then examine the results. This will telach you much more about the difficulties than any forum answers. I suggest you try taking a tripod with you just to see what difference it makes.

 

In London many of the well known tourist attractions ban tripods while others charge a fee. Smaller places don't worry but it is best to ask if in doubt. However the techniques outlined above go some way to making the tripod less necessary.

 

The difference between f1.8 and f3.5 is about 2 stops which is probably also about what your VR will gain, But I think though you will find the zoom easier to hand hold on its wide setting (18mm) then your 50mm. The rule of thumb for hand held shots is 1/(focal length) seconds so you should need 1/50th for the 50mm and 1/18th for the zoom at 18mm. So with VR on you should get less appearance of camera shake with an 18mm setting on your zoom.

 

But again - try it out before you go.

 

have a good trip!

[William Michael]

> VR lens at 18mm or higher around f/3.5 +? Or is it just the type of thing where I should try it both ways and see which way works better? <

 

Digital Film is cheap - try both.

 

But I think 18mm will be better for interiors than 50mm.

 

Three things not mentioned (I think - I only scan read the answers):

 

1. Nail the exposure - if the ISO is high and exposure is nailed correctly, the noise is less noticeable.

 

2. Practice your shutter technique - slow shutter speeds are very possible and you HAVE a VR lens to assist.

 

3. Post production (especially Sharpening and De Noise) can be very important.

 

This is the Canon kit lens at FL = 18mm on a 20D, the lens is wide open at F3.5 @ 1/50s @ ISO 800 (the lens is NOT Image stabilized) - the original is very sharp - 85% of getting a good result, is in nailing the correct exposure, especially when working at the high ISO, IMO.

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/7276581

 

Enjoy your trip.

 

WW

[mendel_leisk]

Maybe rethink your decision to not bring a tripod? I know some places don't allow tripods. Maybe a 4 joint tripod? They tend to be more flimsy, but otoh can fit in most packsacks, so more convenient to bring along.

[nico_lilien]

Oops, I never even considered tripods might not be allowed....

I´m looking forward to Barcelona and the famous Sagrada Familia as I´ll be traveling there this December. I just had a look on their website but could not find any information on tripods.

 

Just like you I just bought a 50mm 1.8 for the same reasons. I also completely overlooked the shallow DOF effect, on the other hand, this might actually help to isolate details from the background?!

 

Thanks for posting, the answers you got helped me as well!

Enjoy your trip! Nico

[mendel_leisk]

When using a tripod a remote release is very helpful, to avoid shake from pushing the shutter manually. Or in a pinch you can use the timer shutter mode, just delaying your exposure 10 seconds or so. Pushing the shutter manually when tripod mounted is most detrimental with short exposures. With time exposures, the little bit of shake at beginning of exposure is less-and-less significant, the longer the exposure.

 

Canon makes releases for specific body models, some serve for more than one model. They have 2 levels of releases: the cheaper just do basic release and can be manually locked for lengthy time exposures. The more expensive level has a digital timer built in.

 

There are third party releases that are much cheaper. I bought the cheap level Canon and it does the job. A friend bought a third party manufactured release with digital time, for a fraction of the cost, and it works as advertised.

 

Check out the Canon site for what remote you need, B&H will give an idea of prices, and The-Digital-Picture will give info and tips.

[www.roelandebruijn.nl]

Both O.P. and Nico Lilien talk about shallow depth of field with the 50 1.8. While this can be an issue it is not the primary problem with this lens when shooting architecture.

 

On a crop camera the 50 will 'act' like a 75/85 (depending on brand of camera) lens. Architecture is typically shot with a wide lens. Therefore the suggestion of one poster for the 10-20 Sigma. I do not know this lens, so cannot say anything about is, but the wideness of it is appealing for architecture.

 

Check out your equipment on architecture near you, before you go on a trip.

[lex_jenkins]

There's no such thing as a "typical" lens for architecture. For several years I've been documenting a particular style of architecture in my area (N. Central Texas). I use everything from a 17mm to a 28mm shift lens to a 55mm macro lens for closeup details to a 180mm telephoto for distance details.

 

In the specific situation Clifford has described - handheld photography in dim lighting - a fast lens is more critical than a specific, arbitrarily designated focal length. The 50mm f/1.8 may very well be the most suitable for his specific situation. I've used the same lens myself, and other fast 50mm lenses, on both my film and 1.5x sensor Nikons, to document interiors when tripods were not permitted.

 

While something like the 30mm f/1.4 Sigma or equivalent might be a good alternative, those faster wider focal lengths are also very expensive.