Reliable external harddrives?

[viktorsundberg]

I know a few people who have lost a lot of data due to external harddrives crashes. This makes you think. In any

case, I have decided to make double backups of all images (+ having them on my internal harddrive) so my question

is really...

 

Are there any statistics which USB external harddrives last longer or crash more seldom? I know Lacie has had a

bad reputation in the past, but which brands do you rely on? WD, Seagate, Lacie, Maxtor, Freecom? Do certain

brands have guarantees?

 

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but since I'm getting a new one now, I'd like to not get the brand with the worst

reputation. Any input regarding this would be appreciated.

[rainer_t]

-- "I know a few people who have lost a lot of data due to external harddrives crashes."

 

Actually, I think you know a lot of people who have lost data due to their failure of having a working backup.

With harddrives, the only question is "when do they fail". Its a simple fact that they will fail at one time.

 

Buying an external drive with a "good reputation" doesn't make the drive any better (as quality may vary). Rely on a backup strategy that allows at least one piece of hardware to fail at any given time (two is better) and replace hardware when failures have happened.

[kslonaker]

I learned the hard way that external hard drives fail. Luckily for me, I had become diligent about making back-up's on DVDs and really didn't lose anything. I need a better filing system, but at least I have all the data. You can't have too many back-up's, imo. I have the external drive AND always back up on DVD, too. I've had corrupt disks, too, so anything really important gets at least two disks.

[mark_chartrand]

Viktor,

 

No Viktor, you are not paranoid. If something can fail - it will. As Kim says make a DVD of your files and keep them in a

location away from your external hard drive. A different building would be best. Bank vault (safe deposit box) is a good idea.

Nothing is ever completely safe!

 

Mark

[William Kahn]

I've been using Maxtor external hard drives for three years and haven't had a failure yet. I back my files up on two drives weekly, then to a third drive about monthly. And, paranoia being what it is, I back up on DVDs about once a year. It's possible a drive may fail one day, but not two or more at once.

 

I think there are basically three reasons for the reliability of my drives. First, they are powered off most of the time, except when I need them. When buying a drive, I look for one that has an on/off switch to make powering on and off easier. Second, I always use the safe disconnect icon in the PC taskbar when disconnecting a drive with the PC on. Third, I tend to buy smaller drives (300 GB or less) because I believe the larger capacity drives may be more prone to failure or data corruption. I don't have any evidence to support this, it's just a gut feeling.

 

Anyway, it all works. ('Scuse me.....I have to go find some wood to knock on).

[apetty]

Paranoid - not at all. Like others have said, backup backup backup.

 

I have 3 externals and 2 internals each with a copy of my files on them. (One is going to have to go away soon because I don't have the room to store all my files on it.)

 

Then I have them all on DVD.(57 or 58 at the moment.) This is not 100% safe either because if you get cheap DVD's the dye breaks down in less than a year or so. So even if you burn them to DVD check them often. I have begun dating them so I know when I burnt them. Part of my New years day celebration is going to be DVD copy/remaking.

 

I am thinking of getting the ones that are rated for 300 years or something crazy like that. A Little expensive but may be worth the piece of mind

 

Then I keep an external with all the data in a firebox, I plan to grab on my way out in case of disaster.

 

After all that, I keep copies of all the jpg's on several websites. (Flickr, kodak, Snapfish, Winkflash, Shuterfly) Most are free if you buy 1 thing a year from them. There are a few others, but for my own sanity I cut it down to just those 5.

 

Then there is Amazon's S3 service which cost $0.15/per gb per month. If you have 100gb it cost about $15. There is access charges as well but if you just want to store files this is good. they don't restrict what you can put up there and there is no limit. and it is encrypted. Due to cost cutting needs, I have stopped using this myself. but plan to go back once I can afford to.

 

So your not paranoid, on the other hand, I am insane. but the first step is to admit it :)

[obelix]

I've been using Western Digital for around 4 years now.

 

I still have my 160GB (1st one I've had). I used in on my 1st PC & I've switched to an iMac a year ago (formatted it to Mac) & still running strong as ever.

 

Also bought a 1.5TB WD about 8 months ago to store all my backup.

[Gerry Whitmarsh]

As William. It is not only the reliability of the HD but other accidents can also happen. I had a Lacie 500 GB which I knocked off my table. Dead as a dodo. Luckily I backup to two drives plus my internal drive. As an added precaution I not only power the drives off when not in use, but physically unplug them; you can always get a spike. I also have very good experience with Maxtor drives.

 

Gerry.

[William Kahn]

Gerry has a good point about voltage spikes. At minimum, your computer and hard drives should be plugged into a surge suppressor. Better yet, a battery backup system than not only acts as a surge suppressor but keeps everything running in the event of a power failure, at least long enough for a graceful shutdown. I went to such a system shortly after moving to an area where someone at the power company likes to throw the switch periodically just for laughs. (OK, not really, but it does seem that way.)

[milton-chris]

There are a number of options to have either a RAID or 'beyondRaid set-up that will alleviate some fears. RAID devices from linksys and d-link are available for coupla hundred bucks. They work on your network, hold 2 drives, have built-in ftp server and cost around $200 Cdn. The drives to insert in them cost depending on size - right now, tigerdirect has 1 Tb drives (Seagate Barracuda) on sale for $129 each.

 

A different setup in the http://drobo.com device, which hods up to 4 drives. Bit higher cost, not a network device, easier to set up.

 

Third option is to buy a case and a drive separately. You could then have a 1 Tb external device for under $160 Cdn. if buying from tigerdirect.

 

As to brands - for externals that come pre-packaged, I have had great success with The Book and Maxtor One-Touch. I have 3 'Book's' full with 15 years of work files, photo's etc. right now, hence my move to drobo. Seems to me that you pay a slight premium for The Book, but only $15 or so.

 

HTH

[mike_sinquefield]

No such thing as paranoid when it comes to backing up. I backup to an external and to DVD (as several responders have stated). I keep the DVDs off site to reduce that risk as well. I use WD hard drives. Over the years, I have had several Seagates crash on me, but have never had a problem with WD. With that being said, I have typically replaced my PC/hard drives at least every 3-5 years, and as Rainer said, hard drives will fail eventually, so therefore, you need 2 backups.

[william_livingston]

I use westn digital and have very good luck with them--but who knows, anything can break.

[apetty]

The only issue I have with Raid is, it might make some people complacent and not replace the hard drive as soon as it fails. RAID can run if a drive fails, but if 2 fail, your dead in the water.

[swenson]

I guess that I've been very lucky. Both me and my partner have had a personal PCs with HD's since '88.

I worked in IT on desktops for three or four years before that and I've never seen a hard crash. Nobody that I know has

had a hard crash. The machines at work were on an average of 45 hrs a week and the home machines probably

about half that so that's over 130k hrs (65k each) with a failure.

 

I've usally kept them for 5 or more years before they are replaced. Usally I keep the original and when it gets full I add

a second drive,. By the time it's full I buy a new box. I'm on a AMD box that I bought just over 3 yrs ago with a single

250 gig that's half full. I've blown away files and directories by mistake and I've seen corroupted system files that

required re-install/repait of the OS. But, a hrad crash that wiped the entire drive never has happened to me. I would

expect the drives are becoming more and more reliable. So, I bristle some what when I see statements like "Its a

simple fact that they will fail at one time.". You make it sound like a certainty. A friend of mine at

http:www.temples.com bought a Spark workstation and put up a server that ran for 24/7 365 for ten years without a

hard crash (87k+ hrs). You add in friends and co-workers (usally 30 or more) over the years and you're in the millons

of hours MTBF.

 

I wonder what kind of treatment they are getting. I've of more folks losing their data from B&Es than crashes. I've had

all kinds of problems with CDs and DVDs going bad, even after reading them imediately after burning.

 

So, I back-up my files and keep the back-up in a different location. At home we have two computers with a shared

drive between the two. It was much cheaper, eaiser, reliable than a network whic I keep a secon copy on. Just

because it's so convenient.

 

So, that's what I do. Backup to the on-line external after every major update. A vacation for example.and every 4-6

months I bring the off site dirive home from my desk at work and sync it up. Don't see why you'd ever need more.

[peterlyons]

I've recently given up buying external drives in favor of buying external drive enclosures, and then inserting 1TB Seagate

drives as needed. The enclosures that I've been happily using recently are 5-bay ESATA housings. The connection to my

computer is as fast as with internal drives, and I can easily insert or remove drives as needed. Its not necessarily the

cheapest solution, but I like it much better than having all those separate firewire drives stacked and chained together.

[milton-chris]

Adam - that's one of the reasons I chose to go with drobo and it's 4-drive capacity. 3 drives can fail and your data is still safe. I'm using the drobo at home, where I keep all of my archived work stuff as well as all personal data..

 

For my office, I'm going to get one of the networkable devices, and then I'll set up an automatic ftp of the day's backups so they come to my home device. No such thing as too much backup.

 

OP - one thing to think of too is making sure you get a USB device, as opposed to a firewire, if you use laptops as your primary computers. I have many firewire external devices, but didn't think of it when I bought my latest batch of laptops, and not one of them has a firewire port.

[viktorsundberg]

Thanks for the input!

 

What about online backup? I've had a look at http://jungledisk.com/ and it seems very good value for money at only 15 cents per GB. It seems safe and they also encrypt your files, which is a plus. Does anyone have experience from these types of services, or even better, from Jungle Disk?

[walter_degroot]

remember lacie and freedom are not manufacturers of hard drive,.

and maxtor has merged with another company ( we have maxtors)

 

careful and frequent backups are the only safe plan

a free program cammed "exact audio copy"

id's the cd or dvd and the type of coating

[eric_brody]

I agree with the posters who emphasize having a reliable back up strategy that is redundant enough to tolerate at least a single drive failure anywhere in the system. Given reasonable probabilities, a simultaneous double failure, short of a major power surge (and it is nice to keep a full backup off-line and not plugged in to either a computer or the wall at all times). That's likely the best you'll do.

 

All these comments, while interesting, are purely anecdotal. I am not aware of any honestly derived data on hard drive failure rates by brand. I have spoken with dealers, whose livelihood depends on dependability and even they admit that their experience, while broader than the individual consumer, is anecdotal. I have LaCie drives that are over 6 years old and run fine, I have WD's purchased at Costco that also work fine. I have Seagate drives in my MacPro which are brand new and I hope will run for a LONG time.

 

Good luck.

 

Eric

[apetty]

Jungle disk is great. they are a front end for Amazons S3. I mentioned them in my first post. You can set backups to run @ night and with a little tweaking you can have a good backup. Once you get past 100gb it can get costly. But I felt it was worth it

[kari v]

In the end all HD manufacturers have had "a reputation" and of course LaCie etc. who use brand x, y and z HDs in their branded boxes. All manufacturers have made a couple of batches that had bit more than normal amount of bad HDs. It happens and computer geeks are even worse than photographers when it comes to reporting soft len... I mean hardware failures.

 

Since the 80's only one single HD has totally and unexpectedly failed me (in 2002). I'm not going to tell which brand. ;)

[lovcom_photo]

I like many others have experienced many harddrive crashes, and of many brands/makes. Thankfully I always had 2 or more back ups, but regardless of that, a crashed HD is still unsettling, to be sure.

 

Here is what I do:

 

1. I have 2 of every drive I use for archival.

2. I NEVER use the drives if I'm not accessing them. I don't just let them run day and night. Drives are like light bulbs...they burn out in time. Using them ONLY when I need to read or write to them keeps them cool, and greatly expands the time before they "burn out".

3. I copy all my work to BOTH drives, as I shoot. If a set of drives fills up, I buy two more.

4. I buy two drives at a time. The only time I buy just one is if one in a two drive set "burns out".

5. I keep the unsued drives in a cool dark place free of vibration, sun light (temperature issue), and away from dust.

6. I check the drives at least once a year for disk errors (bits will evaporate/fall off due to the gravatational pull of the earth).

7. I reformat all drives once a year, re-copying to them afterwards...see #6.

8. Every 5 or so years, I replace the drives with the latest kit...then do #1 through #7 all over again.

 

I've been doing this for 20 years and I have never lost even one image after a crash.

 

Oh, and #9 is: Always assume that a drive WILL crash...don't be surprised....now you have no excuses!

[jim_horton]

Viktor,

 

I have been working with PC's for nearly 15 years. I have personally installed dozens of harddrives on my

family's network (5 computers).

 

 

I have *never* had a Western Digital drive go bad, of about 30 WD's that I've had at home. I've only had to replace

them when they become obsolete due to disk size. I still have most of the old ones a

couple dozen--from 340 Meg unit's to 40 Gig units--in a drawer and they still work when connected to my Kingwin

USB-IDE connector.

 

 

Side note and handy tip:

 

If you remove those actuator-arm magnets in harddrives, they are so viciously powerful that they will hold a thick

calendar to a refrigerator even with a child hanging from it!

 

 

As for Seagate and Maxtor (One in the same now) I've had to replace *EVERY* one I've ever owned (about 6--I gave

too much benefit of the doubt) and will never buy another of either brand again.

 

That's just my personal experience. I've heard many people where I work speak of similar experiences, but I've never

heard anyone speak of any pattern of unreliability with Western Digital.

--Jim

[lovcom_photo]

Jim, it seems you've had better luck then I with WD....I've had at least 4 crash in the last 5-6 years...for me HD's are commodities....like soybeans....I ignore brands and just buy what is on sale, because sooner or later they will crash, and I am ready for that eventuality. All the brands are "bad" IMHO....speaking of crashing, I think it was Toshiba that just announced the release of solid state HD's for laptops and computers....the reliability of these units will be many times more reliable then mechanical mechanisms...I look forward to replacing my mechanical drives with these solid state hyper fast beauties some day....

[Stock-Photos]

I've been using computers since 92 and never had an internal WD fail. So, I made my 2 externals, one big and fast, one small and slower, WD brand.

 

Externals may be more prone to failure, due to more induced shock, than internals.