Why I'll put off my SLR purchase . . .

[doug_nelson3]

I want to get a good look at the KM. I was close to buying a new K10D at a nice discount. I see no real advantage in

the K200D, as it's nearly as big and heavy as the K10 and 20. I see no real reason to go for the K200D when I can

still get a new or slightly used K10D.

 

What intrigues me here is the prospect of the DA 21mm on a truly small SLR that gives me a 10MP RAW. The

largest lens I'd likely use, in addition to the 21mm, is the FA 35 and maybe a 50. Weight is everything in travel and

backpacking. On the minus side, NO weather-sealing is a big problem. I've had electronic film cameras crap out on

misty mornings on the Appalachian Trail.

[shots worth sharing]

That makes perfect sense to me, Doug. I agree the size/weight between the 100/200 & 10/20 lines is not all that significant. For me, that meant it was easy to upgrade but I can see how for your purposes the KM would be intriguing.

[mountainvisions]

I'm with you on this as we seem to have a lot of the same interest and uses for our grear. But the KM isn't a high quality compact that we've been asking for. It's no ist D but rather a Canon Rebel.

 

What you and I want is a sealed ist D with or without SR (though my feelings are it would be hard to sell a non SR camera these days).

 

I'd love to have a metal body, and I'd love for it to be about the size of the Super Program/Program Plus series. I DO NOT need a scooped grip which is all the rage. People always comment how the ist DS series was smaller than the D series, but the reality is the D had cleaner lines, it had a non scooped grip which for some reason people need when the finest professional cameras for decades lacke them, including the LX, F3, and LEICA M series.

 

I'm not going to go into all my list of wants for this super compact body but the bottom line is I want the smallest, most solidly built DSLR possible for around $1000. And with the lack of lens aperture rings I need 2 control wheels on such a camera.

 

One further thing that would be great, releasing the 15mm DA Limited with it as a package. The 15mm could/should be the first Limited with weather sealing and a long throw focus ring with REAL DOF markings. At 15mm AF speed isn't all that important anyway.

 

Just from the most basic request I have on this post, the KM isn't even close!!!!

 

Doug, either buy a K10D or sit out and hope something comes along. Or take a look at the Ricoh GRD/GX200, or Panasonic LX3 both of which are on my radar as alternatives to the updated (yet smaller) ist D that I am wishing for.

[pbarnes]

I too like the idea of a KM as a small, quality, lightweight outfit with the pancake lenses, and as a second

body/back up. When is Pentax likely to offer it as a body only?

[andrewg_ny]

I think the bigger grips came about from the need to pack large batteries and motor drives in very dense camera bodies. I will admit that with larger lenses, it's nice to have *some* additional grip on the body but most D-SLR's are 'grippier' than they need to be. I think the MZ/ZX series were pretty good in this regard, as were super program/program plus with the little extra plastic grip. It appears that some recent Oly D-SLR have moved away from the massive grips so common now. Pentax will need to sacrifice AA battery support (maybe they should offer a AA grip) if they want to do this though.

[mountainvisions]

Andrew,

 

I completely agree, but would add or at least restate the fact that the ist D didn't have a massive grip AND it had AA batteries.

 

yeah, the grip can be nice, but the truth is if you want a compact camera, you probably aren't looking to put huge lenses on it.

 

Something that Doug and I want (and I think you are in the mix IIRC) is a camera that really is designed for f/4 zooms and Limited primes.

 

What you could do, is eliminate AA support, BUT add a AA battery with a grip that extended to the front of th body.

 

This would allow people to have an immensely compact camera when that was what was needed, and a more battery friendly larger camera when you needed either more power or more grip.

 

Just as a note, this is exactly the setup that the ist 35mm had. It was ridiculously small without the grip (almost too small, but exactly the size I want from Pentax now) and with the AA grip, and 4 lithium batteries you'd go broke from burning film in any weather (even -20s) before those batteries died.

 

I realize a lot of people find AA batteries a waste, but the truth is they have some value. I'd love for Pentax grips to at the very least take both AA and L-Ion.

 

I think we should form a group to make a pilgrimage to Pentax USA and ultimately Japan so we can stop dreaming about the camera they aren't going to make us, and just pound out the details ourselves.

[jaophotography]

Doug, I think I would buy any camera but the K-m.

I just looked at some pictures of the KM and found out that it doesn't have a display on top of the camera. So, it will be like all the rest of the Canon/Nikon cameras with the 2.7" display turning on, blinding the eyes that so badly need to see through the viewfinder. I have used a Nikon D40x (I don't have one) and it has that same thing. When its dark, forget looking through the viewfinder. Unless there is a way to turn off the LCD, that is a very big problem.

 

In the future, when no one has heard of the K100d super(or the k10d,k200d,k20d etc.), I can brag about my 11 point auto focus, my display on top that doesn't turn on the 2.5" display in those dark situations, and even my ridiculously slow 2.8FPS with its 6.31MP CCD sensor.

 

Justin-I will go along with you to make us that dream camera. Or wait, how about lets just start a company ourselves. Anyone have a name?

[andrewg_ny]

Justin, I think you've read my repeated comments about the size & weight of various lenses to know I'm firmly in the camp of f/3.5-4.5 or f/4 zooms and limited primes. Do you think the grip on the *ist D is that much smaller than the K10D? I never thought the grip on the DS2 was all that small--definitely large compared to the ZX/MZ, etc. Perhaps I don't know what you mean by 'scooped' grip. The SF and PZ have relatively large grips. If they were to shrink the grips, they should shorten the built-in flash housing as well. Again, the MZ/ZX bodies didn't need as big a protrusion for this.

 

I would be surprised if you couldn't turn off the LCD on the K2000/K-m. If shooting in low light it seems necessary to drop the LCD brightness considerably, but you then have to rely on the histograms because your instant review will look terrible.

 

I think removing the top LCD is a reasonable size- and cost-cutting measure these days, but hope that a good enthusiast-oriented, compact, sealed Pentax D-SLR is still in our future, WITH a backlit top LCD. And a pentaprism viewfinder.

[doug_nelson3]

Why not a digital rangefinder to use pancake lenses? There's be no need for a pentaprism or pentamirror, just a parallax-corrected viewfinder with frame lines for the equivalents of 28, 50 and 85 or so. The late Minolta CLE had just such a rangefinder. These pancake lenses cry out for a quality compact digital camera.

[frygge]

To be honest I found the "mock up" olympus shown at Photokina to be a very desireable piece of equipment. A Pentax version with parallax-corrected VF as suggested above and some pancakes would suit me just fine thank you.

 

Cheers

 

Fredrik

[le-plume]

Justin: I guess what you're saying is that you want a K10D in a ME Super body... Sounds good - let's find a way to do that and we're in business! ;-)

[mountainvisions]

Andrew, I meant the grip on the DS/DL was bigger.

 

The profile of the ist D is certainly smaller than the K10D and a lot of that is the "less friendly grip" that MANY people complained about. Oddly coming from shooting my Program Plus most of the time, I thought the grip was quite a bit more than needed.

 

The DS and DL grips weren't too big but had they been smaller the camera would certainly take up less space.

 

Every little extra potrustion on these cameras takes up camera bag space, which means you need an increasingly bigger bag...or pocket if you goal is to claim it's "pocketable" I just want a smooth camera like the old SLRS.

 

I guess, I want Pentax to copy Olympus design right now...but keep the quality viewfinders!

 

Here is the deal, I WANT a top LCD on all regular sized (K10D/K200D) cameras, but I'd be willing to give up a top LCD ONLY on a Program Plus/ist 35mm sized camera.

 

I use the top LCD a lot, and really how much does a monochrome LCD cost? $5, $3, $1? I'm betting using scaled cost it's probably less than $5 for sure.

 

Now the question is, do we do what Doug says, and eliminate the mirror box, can it be done without changing the lens design or adding adapters (olympus is adding adapters for it's existing lenses, I hate adapters), or do we keep the mirror box but eliminate all the little contours and shaping that many of these cameras have grown on.

[miserere_mei]

Justin, if you want to make the cameras slimmer, then you need to take out the mirror box (film is thin, CCDs are not). Changing the flange-to-CCD distance will mean that current lenses will not focus at their current closest distance, but on the upside you'd be able to focus beyond infinity and maybe see you're own arse if the lens is long enough (this is why we need a Pentax 600mm). It's for this reason (close focus, not seeing your own arse) that Olympus will release adapters.<br>

<br>

I'm fine with adapters if it means I can still use my Jurassic period 28mm lens on a tiny camera. Even with an adapter it will still be a lot smaller than the lens mounted on a K10D. If you think Pentax DA pancakes are small now, imagine how tiny they'd be if a new micro-K-Mount were introduced!<br>

<br>

I advocated that Pentax join Samsung in their hybrid DSLR adventure <a href="http://pentaxdslrs.blogspot.com/2008/09/is-there-hybrid-camera-in-pentaxs.html">here</a>. I think everyone would benefit: Samsung, Pentax and *us*.