D700 vs. New Competition = $ Drop

[cabrabesol]

From my point of view, one that has a limited budget and does not want to buy an old piece of machinery, I have to say that while in DX format Nikon is pretty good (nd i am a happy user) in the FX format it is "still not there". To spun a serious interest price of the D700 must be at least the half, still remaining an obsolete piece of hardware.

[gy]

I have downloaded both sample images of the 5DMII and D700. There are portrait samples for both of the camera's websites. I opened them in PS and pulled contrast slider all the way right and played with the brightness slider almost all the way to the right and left to experiment. What I see is ( im no expert by the way ) Canon has virtually no noise even when the file is pushed to these extremes and retains its smoothness. Where as you start to see the image getting little noisy and if correct to say kind of muddy for the D700. Im not even comparing D300 which even totally screws up at the base ISO. And remember that the Canon has almost the twice pixel density.

[ilkka_nissila]

Mauro, why do you not think they're "not there"? There are some omissions in the FX lens line (like a fast modern wide angle; Canon just updated their 24/1.4 and Leica brought out 24/1.4 and 21/1.4, so there's got to be someone interested in these). But the features and image quality in Nikon's FX cameras are definitely "there", in fact they made something of a revolution in how people think about available light work.

[bms]

<I> I have downloaded both sample images of the 5DMII and D700 </I> <p>

 

Gokce,

<p>

sorry I may be behind but can you post the links for the images you tested....? Not to second guess but I'd like to

see for myself....<P> thanks<p>

[peter_k4]

Sony would have to be have a significant market share to drop Nikon as a customer. They could just drop them out of spite I suppose and take a hit on the chip manufacturing, but even that couldn't happen instantly (like over a year or 2) otherwise I'm sure nikon could sue them to high heaven.

 

So even if Sony's eventual goal is to cut off Nikon, that won't be happening in at least the next 15 years. At which point I will have my Nikon D900xhs with 16mp, flawless ISO 25600 performance and 24 frames per second full resolution capturing...I'll buy a second one in case the first one breaks, and carry on for the next 40 years into my old age... ;)

 

In the mean time, it sure will be nice to see the price of FX cameras coming down in the near future :)

[gy]

Sure Benjamin,

 

5DMKII;

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/eos5dm2/html/sample1_e.html

 

D700;

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d700/sample.htm

( I have downloaded the second ( bride ) image )

 

D300;

http://imaging.nikon.com/products/imaging/lineup/digitalcamera/slr/d300/sample.htm

( I looked at the last two portraits )

[styles]

Alright, here are some examples <br><br>

 

<b>d700 - ISO 6400 - No Noise reduction - Production Camera</b><br>

 

<b>50d - ISO 6400 - No Noise reduction - Pre-Production Camera</b><br>

http://a.img-dpreview.com/gallery/canoneos50d_preview_samples/originals/img_0204.jpg<br><br>

 

<b>Things to concider before judging:</b><br><br>

Pre-production cameras dont offer the same quality so expect better results<br>

5D will probably be better the 50d for obvious reasons (as in the past)<br>

Ambient lighting is relevant<br><br>

 

<b>Personal opinion:</b><br>

Seems to me like most negative comments are unfounded...stop nitpicking, the quality of prints is what counts.

I still think it's more about the user then the camera, If your happy with Canon stay with Canon, If your happy

with Nikon stay with Nikon<br>

You can say... The xxD seems great but I'll stick with My Dxx<br>

Notice how most PRO PhotoG dont change brands and usually dont complain about competing products on forums<br>

[styles]

One last thing... according to reviews the Sony A900 isn't a competitor due to too much compromise between Quality/Resolution. Dont expect the d700 to drop that much

[jbm]

Ilkka,

 

You are correct about the Red FF camera.

 

I don't think shooting this way will be terabytes of information. The idea will be that you can have a running 3-5 second buffer for action shooting and depressing the shutter will bracket the information behind and ahead of the buffer. Then you can immediately hack down to the relevant stills. It's really an amazing concept. The throughput, write rates, and storage for this will quickly become portable, and it will change a lot of what it means to be an action photographer. At any rate, I am going to stop posting on this thread as it is really for those interested in debating the merits of current FF offerings from the big players.

 

Cheers,

 

Jay

[wenhan_xue]

As I posted my thoughts when Nikon released the news of D700 back in June, I believe that Nikon had positioned the price too high, including D3 too. Now the numbers show and I close my case.

[ilkka_nissila]

In order to do a comparison properly the images really need to be shot in the same light and of the same subject.

While I think some indication of the quality can be achieved by looking at random samples, it takes thousands of

images of actual shooting to form an useful real world characterisation of the image quality. BTW the D700 and D3

pass this test with flying colors.

 

If one jumps from one brand to the next based on whoever has the most megapixels, chances are that one won't have

the lenses to get the best quality out of any system. Getting the right lenses for one of the systems and

sticking with it is a better use of money than chasing a body from whoever has the latest sensor.

 

And by the way, it's even more important to take pictures and work with the art and process of photography

instead of just theorizing about

sensor technology based on data sheets. It's the equivalent of sofa sports vs. actually moving your body.

[gy]

just ame by while surfing.. here are some comparisons of D700 & 5DMKII and 5DMKII samples from ISO 200 upto ISO 12800..

 

[gy]

just came by while surfing.. here are some comparisons of D700 & 5DMKII and 5DMKII samples from ISO 200 upto ISO

12800..

 

[harvey_edelstein1]

I wonder if the hd video can be sent via wifi to a battery powered hard drive for storage if you have the accessory grip?

[hawkman]

"And this debate has gone on this far? Honestly.. basics suggest plainly that the canon tool is superior to the nikon tool."

 

The samples above are taken in different lightning in favor of Canon (read the exif) but yet they suggest the opposite, Canon has too much processing which makes the photo look as if it is out of focus with no detail on the eyebrows and no visible eyelashes-Nikon has kept the fine cactus needles and some fur detial, I'd pick Nikon 25,600 any day.

[hacon_edgley]

Surely, for many of us, even some of those shooting on a commercial basis the issue of the print plays the most important part. Given that everything from the first 6MP cameras or DSLRs of yesteryear provide superb prints all the way up to A3 sizes, the most important factor above all is the quality of glass and for a few of noise.

I bet that if you work out the proportions of how many images make the final cut and then are processed and printed, I reckon you will find that current equipment over the past few years of the digital transition will cope more than adequately to this day.

Let us not forget that the current market and technology is moving quickly and the differences now between camera generations is marginal. Yes, eighteen months time we will no doubt see similar threads on how these "ameliorations" will aid and potentially improve our photography.

I guess what I'm saying is save those bucks and invest in quality glass, or better still for photograph trips.... unless you are one of those who are lucky enough to plough through the (looks like) oncoming recession and purchase all those lovely new tools.

[erickpro]

Prices for these cameras are subjective to every single person. If you are wanting to do landscape, get a medium format camera or

large format film and scan the film and never complain about quality nor price. If you want to do fashion and commercial, same boat. If

you want to do weddings and events get a D300, D700 or D3 and never complain about prices or what is better. If you need action sport

shots, get something designed for that and don't complain. Every camera out there was designed for a purpose. Ever since the D100

I've wanted a Full Frame camera and when is finally out (D700 and D3) I am not willing to pay 3k or 5k. I expect Nikon to lower the price

on their cameras to about 1500 for the D300 and $2000 for their D700... but, is just an idea. I never bought any DX lenses because I

always told myself that they would release a full frame camera and I'm glad I did. I always thought about going with Canon for their 5D

but I never needed the full frame, I just "wanted it". I have realized, after 5 years that a D700 is the PERFECT camera for me. I do

commercial work, event work and a few sports and in my market I have never ever needed more than 10mp. Canon offers 20+mp ? Is

nice to have, specially for big photo prints for fashion but most of the fashion and commercial work I do goes to billboards or magazines

and I really don't see much difference on a billboard that is 50ft away, I can't distinguish an 8mp DSLR vs a 12mp DSLR, so I doubt I

would see a difference in a 22mp camera... the future will tell though. I'm in no hurry.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

"By Christmas 2009, I expect a D700 replacement. The only question is will Sony sell Nikon the sensors."

 

So many silly statements in one thread! As already pointed out, Nikon designs many of it's sensors and simply outsources production. They could have someone else make sensors for them. Perhaps even Canon since their sensor manufacture is most likely not a part of the photo business (if it is, they should reorganize!).

 

Canon's photo business is similar in size to Nikon's photo business. That's what matters. People within companies do not all cooperate. They compete with other internal businesses for funds and attention. So it's not uncommon that my competitor in one business is my client in another. And just because a company is large does not mean that it can compete. Look at Detroit! GM used to be huge.

[erickpro]

Another thing... Video on a DSLR? no. I will not get a DSLR over another camera for that purpose. It doesn't have

Genlock, Zebra, SMTPE, Focusing Assistant, TimeCode, XLR inputs, nor other professional essentials for professional

video... In other words, your video will be sooo amateur looking, so bad that you would make a clown out of you. It may

be cool to use and nice to have the HD video feature, but... I leave it at that until it offers what I just mentioned.

 

I would be more interested in a Video camera that has a high quality 16mp sensor, so I can record an event and get hyper

high def shots worthy for print.

[captain_jack]

ISO6400 (JPG Basic) straight from my new D700. Picture Mode: Neutral. All other settings (Contrast, Sharpening, Saturation, Brightness set to default of NEUTRAL MODE).<div></div>

[captain_jack]

I will take lesser MP (12.1) than 21MP for the cleaner and smooth pics. I have one sample for ISO400, which is even more cleaner than my D300 at ISO100. The pic posted above is at 6400, and can be printed A4 size, without showing much noise. I am so excited with this new capability of shooting in low light without having to carry my tripod and/or flash. :)

[captain_jack]

Another sample at ISO400 from my D700. So clean.<div></div>

[Landrum Kelly]

"I will take lesser MP (12.1) than 21MP for the cleaner and smooth pics."

 

There is so much that goes into image quality besides megapixels (or even pixel density, for that matter) that I will be happy to suspend judgment until I have personally seen what both cameras produce, side by side, with comparable lenses.

 

I, too, am impressed with Nikon's high ISO capabilities, and the low noise that one gets with such high ISO. Even so, until I see some serious head-to-head comparisons a la dpreview.com, I don't feel the need to judge prematurely. On certain types of judgment, I definitely proceed a posteriori, after the fact. I am not about to give a judgment at this point--but I will be very interested in what more rigorous comparisons do reveal, since I have absolutely no brand loyalty at this point.

 

I could go either way, but I intend to do so on the basis of very hard data, which I doubt that we have right now.

 

--Lannie

[captain_jack]

"There is so much that goes into image quality besides megapixels (or even pixel density, for that matter) that I will be happy to suspend judgment until I have personally seen what both cameras produce, side by side, with comparable lenses. "

 

You have resonated my point and infact agreed to what I was trying to say. In 5DMKII, I still do not see a pro level AF. Even if it has the AF of 40D, I still think, it is much inferior to Nikon's 3500 AF engine. An auto-iso is another thing, which makes Nikon's new offerings much better than current 5DMKII. In some cases, this feature alone can make the difference between getting a shot or no shot at all. Then there's commander mode, which is missing from Canon line. Weather proofing. The list goes on..... I do not need to wait for head-to-head comparison for commenting on these issues, because they cannot be compared, because they are missing from Canon. What hard data you want to wait on?? High ISO? I am already a big fan of D700's high ISO capabilities. Even if it's a little better in 5DMKII, it still doesn't makeup for other short falls.

[gy]

I’m a Nikon user, but not a fanatic and appreciate when I see a camera that has outstanding specs. Canon and Nikon both has advantages to one another.

 

5DMKII does have weather sealings and does have an auto-iso feature. What left is yes the D700 may have better AF system which can be maybe extra benefit to only action shooters ( tracking ) IMO. No way I guess landscape, commercial, wedding or fashion shooters will struggle with the AF of 5DMKII. With its price, it is a very good spec'd camera. If MKII did have an pro AF, then they would have put the 1dsM3 sales in danger ( which they already did in my opinion )

 

Commender mode is nice but not no no for me.

 

If I was pro and was in the field of what 5DMKII was designed for, a better AF for tracking which will be no plus for me and the commender mode wouldnt make me choose the D700 at a higher price..

 

Yes its too early to speak of but what I see with the samples posted indicates the sensor is very good considering the high resolution. And thats a good thing for Nikon users as Nikon will try to match or better Canon sensor and we're the ones who will benefit from it.