Help me get bokeh :)

[joshua_mortel]

This is a question that has been eating away at me for quite some time and I often dread when a certain artistic

element is tied to the investment in new equipment. I've been saving up for the 70-200mm. Okay, first let me just

tell you that I am a fan of smooth bokeh. There are times I want bokeh on a photograph I took where too many

subjects are in the same focal plane. So --and please don't flame me for this-- sometimes I use photoshop and do

some faux bokeh; I am able to produce the results I want but it just takes too much care and treatment and it's

not that I lack dedication to the final image, but it's more like this is taking away from time I would rather

spend shooting. So, back to the 70-200. Price --I'm willing to eat the price. What is bothering me is the

physical size of the lens.

 

I shoot with a 50mm 1.8 on a DX body and I am pleased with the bokeh on the portraits I take with it. I

especially like shooting portraits at night with it because things like street lights turn into beautiful

transparent circles and it makes the scene look very lush and vibrant. But you've used some kind of 50mm prime

before --it's tiny. I am just blown away by what this lens can do in terms of bokeh. Is it the 9-bladed diaphragm?

 

I am also looking at the 85mm 1.8 and 105mm 2.8 micro. Kinda curious about Nikon's lenses with defocus control

--been looking into that too.

 

I guess my question is... is there anyone else out there trying to find a bokeh lens? I'm open to all kinds of

ideas --even if you want to talk about a photoshop filter that makes faux bokeh simpler. I'm not trying to stir

up an argument; just trying to find some solutions that will cut down the lens weight. Thanks.

[rffffffff]

the 85 1.4 is a good alternative to the 70-200 for the most part and is much smaller and lighter... the 105 DC is a nice lens too, but my particular lens focuses less well than the 85 for some reason and the DC effect is really subtle and perhaps not worth the money.

 

Simply, when I don't feel like carrying the 70-200, I take the 85.

[rob_piontek]

IMO the bokeh from the 50 1.8 is not that great. In case you're not aware, there is a difference between bokeh and the background being out of focus, i.e. shallow depth of field. The 85 1.8 bokeh is much better than the 50, but I get bad purple fringing that easily shows up. Photozone.de shows tests of the 85 1.4 and it also has the purple fringing problem. I recently got the sigma 30 1.4 and it seems to me to be better than both of my nikon primes. But I haven't really used it enough yet.

 

I was also disappointed by the near focus limit of the 85 1.8. It's not very near. It you need pictures of smaller things the 50 1.8 is better.

 

I'm curious about the Sigma 50 1.4. It seems it costs more than the Nikon, but AFS is so much nicer. Another reason why I like the Sigma 30 1.4 more than my Nikon primes.

[mars790]

Faking it is never the same. The 85 1.4 as Robert suggests is excellent and one of the best Nikon lenses for bokeh, especially in it's price

range.

 

Mine gets used about ten times as much as the 70-200. You'll spend less and it's way more convenient.<div></div>

[costas_h]

The smooth bokeh you are referring to is only possible with a circular aperture diaphragm.

 

The bokeh created from any two lenses of the same focal length wide open (at their smallest f-number) should be

identical.

 

What you replicate in Photoshop (and I suppose you probably do it by Gaussian blurring of a selection) would look

the same with that from a lens wide open.

 

Close down any lens a stop or more and the diaphragm becomes a polygon (9 sides for 70-200 2,8) and the bokeh

becomes less smooth and even.

 

There is really no way of avoiding this and expect professional lenses of 9-rounded-bladed diaphragms to have very

similar bokeh at same f-numbers.

 

Now, comparing your 50 1,8 to your 70-200 2,8, the bokeh of the 70-200 shot at 2,8 would be smoother than the 50

shot at 2,8, becuase the 50mm has to be stopped down from its maximum aperture.

 

Now concerning the defocus control, that would be the ideal choice, because not only you can control the aperture

but also the spherical aberration. That is great for portraits since you can decide on how the background or

foreground gets blurred or just softer, plus the shallow depth of field the f/2 gives.

[jose_angel]

Another option is the 85/2.8 PC if you need to change the focus plane.

 

I really don`t know about bokeh; some lenses looks to have smoothly blurred background subjects (good bokeh), others double blurred contours (bad), etc. I suspect most of the times it depends on the subject`s plane proximity, how are highlighted out of focus areas, aperture and focal lenght. I want to mean that in my experience the same lens could produce ugly or pleasant images, depending on this factors. I have seen beautiful images produced by pretty irregular (almost squared) five or four bladed Schneider large format lenses, and doubled ugly backgrounds by 9 bladed current asph lenses. I wonder if round diaphragms only assure circular shaped (not polygonal) highlight rings. I can`t understand it.

 

Photographer skills also counts here more than gear, thought...

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

The 70-200 VR is an excellent lens, but it's uncomfortable if you carry with a traditional neck strap. I use the R-Strap by Black Rapid. It's really comfortable and the lens and camera balance nicely.

 

http://blackrapid.com/

 

The 85/1.8 is also an excellent lens. You may also want to consider an older MF 105. I have a Nikkor 105/2.5 P*C Gauss Type lens and it's amazing. Inexpensive, too.

[luisarguelles]

Nikkor 45mm f/2.8 AI-P. Probably the best bokeh in Nikon lenses. I must recognize I'm a bokeh fan and my preferred

lenses are my Summicron 35mm f/2 MK IV and the 50mm f/2. Believe me, the only Nikkor that comes close is the 45mm

Nikkor. In my experience, it behaves very much like (well, almost exactly) a Elmar 50mm f/2.8. Please, take a view at the

following picture taken with the 45mm and a F100: http://www.photo.net/photo/5945157&size=lg

[elliot1]

"it makes the scene look very lush and vibrant."

 

You are describing the 70-200mm lens. It is my favorite Nikon lens.

 

Good or bad bokeh? Here are a selection of pictures I took with the 70-200mm a few weeks ago. I am not a bokeh expert. You decide.

 

http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=862136

 

(these are JPGs out of the camera (unprocessed) and only esized for Photo.net)

 

Perhaps someone who has both the 70-200mm and the 85mm can post some side-by-side samples that illustrate the differences. I owned the 85mm but sold it as I rarely used it. I always use my 70-200mm lens.<div></div>

[luisarguelles]

Elliot, an interesting set of pictures. However, for a visual definition of what 'Bokeh' is, just take a view at this: http://www.photo.net/photo/3419042&size=lg

[lex_jenkins]

It sounds like the bokeh leaked out of Joshua's lens, or dried up. If you return it to Nikon they can disassemble it and install fresh bokeh. On 105/2.5 AI-B Fauxque Nikkors there's a tiny valve accessible from the rear, but these lenses are rare.<p>

 

<i>"The smooth bokeh you are referring to is only possible with a circular aperture diaphragm."</i><p>

 

That's interesting, Constantinos. What if the lens has only three or four blades in the iris but is used wide open? It's baffling. My Rollei TLR had a perfectly circular iris shape but only indifferent bokeh. But the camera was pretty old and the bokeh had probably leaked out or dried up.

[elliot1]

Joshua, here are a couple of links you may find interesting:

 

http://www.rickdenney.com/bokeh_test.htm

 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/85mm-bokeh.htm

[mark_sirota1]

If you're looking for a bokeh lens, see <a href="http://www.photo.net/nikon-camera-forum/00Qp1v">the current discussion on the 60/2.8 AF-S</a>.

[albertdarmali]

In my opinion the king of bokeh is Kinoptik 75mm f/2. I think it mops the floor with 85mm f/1.4 Nikkor. But then again, maybe it's just me. :)

[nick_davis]

Here is an example with the 105mm f/2.8 Micro<div></div>

[joshua_mortel]

Thank you for the replies everyone! Very sage. Glad you guys have a sense of humor too. I like the photos you guys posted.

 

Ric - The photo of the girl with glasses is cool :) I like the out of focus background. The only thing that takes away from the photo is the rusty panel connection (I do engineering so maybe that's why I noticed that!)

 

Elliot - The defocus on the background really brings out the subjects. Also the slight vignetting helps draw the attention to the center of the photo.

 

Nick - The colors on the fungus is amazing and whatever comprised the background was diffused rather nicely! It didn't come out too shimmery, is what I mean. If that makes sense...

 

I'm a bokeh-maniac, I guess!

 

Thank you for the lens recommendations. Piontek, you bring up a good point about purple fringing on the 50mm. The lens is showing its age. Thanks for the links; I'm going to read up on it some more. It's probably time for me to approach this problem in a scientific way...

[oskar_ojala]

If you want good bokeh but the 70-200 is too large, then you could for example consider one of the following: 85/1.8, 85/1.4, 105/2.5, 105/2 and Zeiss 85 and 100 in this focal length range. The basic variables are what focal length do you want, do you want AF, how much money do you want to spend and how about resolution and contrast.

[nick_davis]

Joshua, the background in the image above of the orange fungus was just a back-lit forest. And you can thank Kodak for the wonderful colors, more specifically Kodak E100VS, because it was not quite that orange in real life.

[blumesan]

Constantinos Hinos wrote:

 

"The smooth bokeh you are referring to is only possible with a circular aperture diaphragm.

 

The bokeh created from any two lenses of the same focal length wide open (at their smallest f-number) should be identical."

 

I don't know how you come to these conclusions. They are quite incorrect (imho). Suggest you read the rickdenny article cited by Elliot Bernstein.

 

Cheers/Mike

[walterh]

I like Oskar's suggestion of the 100mm Zeiss macro ZF lens. Amazing bokeh but in terms of money/bokeh only average. However, Zeiss has a yearly bokeh free refill option for the first 10 years ^^.

 

A lot of bokeh per money gives a used 105 f2.o Nikkor DC.