First time buying a 4x5...begging for assistance.

[don_welch]

I use a Horseman LX-C, heavier and with some more movements than the

LE, but I would recommend you strongly conside the LE if you can

afford it. As others have said, 150mm may be a bit short for an only

lens, but I made out fine with a 180mm for a while before I got a

more rounded out group of lenses (over a period of years). 210mm

would be even better.

[neal_shields]

Call B&H and get their Professional Photo SourceBook. It is $9.95 and

lists everything, with prices and pictures. TALK TO HER

PROFESSORS,they probably know exactly what she wants.

 

<p>

 

If you really want to knock her socks off, get her a Wisner, but you

might have to sell your car and start riding a bicycle.

 

<p>

 

I have made Christmas present purchases for my wife from B&H before

and they agreed to extend their aproval period 15 days from Dec 25,

not the purchase date. They also offer a extra cost warranty for used

cameras. However, everyone else that has been mentioned I have had

good luck with or heard good things about.

 

<p>

 

The only thing I purchased from Midwest turned out to be defective

and I had no problems at all returning it a getting a refund. That

is the real test of a retailer...when things go wrong.

 

<p>

 

Beware leaking bellows on used equipment, especially Linhof. I

purchased a used Technica and stuck a flashlight inside the bellows

and the pinholes looked like the sky on a clear night. Replacement

bellows can be very expensive.

 

<p>

 

I have found that if you have time and watch Ebay and know what you

want, you can save about half. However, the other night I tried to

buy this year's christmas present for my wife and it went for about

75% of list and about $30 OVER what I could buy it brand new out of

NY for.

[david4]

Andrew: Please read Using the View Camera Author: Steve Simmons

Binding: Hardcover, 144 pages Publisher:

Watson-Guptill Publications, Incorporated Published Date: 10/01/1992.

I think it is the ideal book for your purposes. Best of luc

[fred_de_van]

Listen to Charlie and Don, a 150mm lens is too short and very annoying

to attempt to use for her needs that you describe. A 210mm is minimum

and the lens that will fit over 50% of her needs. A 300mm is a class

act. Look to the Schnieders and Rodenstocks, they do things the others

don't. Some of the best lenses are no longer made but they remain the

standards of the realm. Those are the Ektars, made by Kodak. The 10

inch Wide Field Ektar, the 12 inch Commercial Ektar and the series of

Voightlander Apo-Lanthars are the true Jewels of the still life world.

She will love you forever, and never part with one. They are not hard

to find or too expensive.

 

<p>

 

Still life and studio photography is not about ease, in is about craft

and skill. Do not listen to that stuff about no yaw and other

nonesense. It is marketing and has no effect on sensitivity and true

feel for the craft. As a Sinar user, I can tell you there are aspects

of the over attention to engineering that can be annoying and non

intuitive. A good Horseman or even a Cambo can be less intrusuive, but

there is no arguing that as machines the Sinar and the Arca Swiss are

two of the finest there is. In Practice at times a 60 year old floppy

deardorf is the tool that works best, even with all of its

limitations. The 4x5 and 8x10 Granview cameras are amazing field

cameras and there is nothing in the world like them. For a starter

camera with the most flexability and ruggedness I would look first to

the Horseman. Make sure you do not fall into the trap of buying a

basic Sinar only to find it too short for use in the studio with a

210mm lens. That is the most annoying thing possible and many basic

cameras are too short for still life use.

[neal_shields]

I checked my B&H catalogue which may not be quite current but will

give you an idea of new 4x5 view camera prices:

 

<p>

 

Arca Swiss Discovery $1344.

Horseman LE $1345.

Linhof Kardan E $1999.00

Sinar F1 $1850

 

<p>

 

Most of these cameras can serve as platforms that she can add on to

vertually forever.

 

<p>

 

Schneider G Claron 210mm F9 $711.

Nikon M 200mm F8 $609.

Rodenstock APO Sironar F5.6 $989

All are in Copal shutters.

 

<p>

 

Wisner 4X5 Traditional field $1495 (probably not what she needs but I

just like pretty wood.)

[neal_shields]

I read Fred's post after mine. The sinar comes with a 18" bellows

but only a 12" rail. The 6" extension rail is $159. The Linhof has

20" standard, the horseman 15",the Arca Swiss 15" with a 11.8" rail?

[erik4]

I just cannot resist this. It is a GUY thing buying gifts to woo a

woman's heart. So it has gone beyond sweets and flowers...

 

<p>

 

Think about it as a system that you're starting her on. It is not a

one-time purchase but the beginning of a system that she can AFFORD to

add to as she progresses. Getting her a Sinar or Arca-Swiss is great

advice but can she afford to maintain them and add pieces to them when

she needs to? I am not sure what the situation is whe it comes to

renting accessories for the Sinar or Arca-Swiss.

 

<p>

 

That said, know that Sinar-Bron offers the 4X5 Sinar X for about $2995

once a year at about this time of the year. Check it out with

Sinar-Bron. I'd recommend a Rodenstock APO Sironar-S lens. As to the

focal length, only your girlfriend knows what she wants. If she

indicates a 150mm, get her a 150mm.

[fred_de_van]

I have almost never used the standard rail with my horseman. It is too

short. If she shoots food and things like that she will definately

need lenses like the 300mm just to make things look normal. Short

lenses distort the objects in the shot. Egg shaped dishes 3D forks,

cherries bigger than oranges. I often use a 480 Rodenstock Apo Ronar,

or a 14" Ektar for food. You need a very long camera rail and bellows.

My Sinar and my Szabad are both 8x10 models so long bases and bellows

are not an issue on 4x5. I have 3 Horseman rails. The long one I think

is 24". My Cambo is a 22, I think. I rarely use any 12-15 inch rails

because the 135-180mm lenses are useless in the studio for anything

other than full length people because of the distortion and you have

to be so close that the camera interfears with lighting and access.

But the distortion is horrible. I use short rails for Wide angle

lenses, such as my Beloved 53mm Biogon.(Useless in studio, it really

lives most of the time on a Granview). A too short camera (rail

and bellows) will be a source of instant frustration, since the one

thing she cannot do is the very thing she loves to do. It will do

great landscapes with almost any lens, but do nothing at all in the

studio.

 

<p>

 

If you do get her a 4x5 for Still Life/Food, you will need a real

tripod. Look at the Davis And Sanford studio air support tripod, and

the big Gitzo. The D&S costs no more than a manfretto, but is so much

more a device a studio photog would love. Perfect in every way.

definately not a overgrown toy.

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Andrew

 

<p>

 

I would do it like so: Oh my girl yesterday there was a discussion

about LF cameras between to photographers in the restaurant, the first

voted for Arca and Linhof and the second for Sinar and Horseman or

something like thad but they came not to a conclution, what do you

think is the best LF camera around?

And then she gets big eyes and red ears and she will tell you wich is

here favorit,and then buy here the favorit!

And then you are the best and she gets the biggest eyes when she opens

the present!

The camera wich is best for me is maybe the worst for here. So with a

bit of communication you get the right staff for here.

And you get a big kiss, good luck!

[ellis_vener_photography]

I can't resist: <P>Fred wrote: <I>"Still life and studio photography

is not about ease, in is about craft and skill. Do not listen to that

stuff about no yaw and other nonesense."</I> Fred is either not a

professional or is a professional masochist. yaw free makesa

great deal of difference in studio shooting. I write this based on

three years of assisting a top level studio photographer and

seventeen years of some pretty high level shooting on my own.

The reason it makes a difference is that by makingthe process of

setting up the camera you increase your productivity and your

ability to concentrate on the image, which in the end is the only

thing that matters. With a camera that induces yaw (combination

of swing and tilt movements) you go through tw oor more rounds

of correcting your corrections, never a good thing.

[fred_de_van]

Neither can I

 

<p>

 

Ellis,

 

<p>

 

You sound like any one of five assistants I fired over the past 40

years of my effortlessly switching from a Deardorff to a Sinar to a

Horseman to a Cambo. I would tell you the reason I fired them but like

them you will (have) missed the point.

[alpshiker]

Here are my two cents: If you are puchasing a camera for her or even just a gift certificate, you might be

depriving her from half the pleasure of getting what she wants, where she wants. Over the years in

photography school and talking with her fellow students, she might have now a pretty good idea of what she'd

like and where to get it. Some places have much higher prices and she could well fit another lens or useful

accessory in the package depending on where she buys. So why not respect her own ability to make decisions

and offer her a gift box containing some pictures or drawings of cameras and the bucks for it? Just a thought.

[dk_thompson]

I'm with Paul on this as well....the right camera is really a personal

choice, and it might even take her one or two tries to find the right

one for her tastes & style...why not just let her make the decision?

[ellis_vener_photography]

fred: As a commercial photographer running my own studio for

seventeen years, I get the point:: they didn't want to do things

<I>your way</I>. that's fine, in your studio, you are the boss.

[don_welch]

Not getting into the question about why Fred fired the 5 assistants,

I have to say that the yaw-free aspect of my Horseman is not just

marketing. If I use it for a while and switch back to my old Cambo,

I feel the difference in the efficiency of setup time. "Sensitivity

and true feel for the craft" can't be quantified objectively. (The

person that brings it up first can claim to have it, and that the

other person wouldn't recognize it if it bit them.) But I can

quantify and qualify efficiency of setup time, and I don't think that

lessens my craft or skill in using the camera. If I wanted an easy

life, I wouldn't be using a LF camera.