Starting with Film Developing: Hints, Tips, Anything?

[cdzombak]

I have bought film developing supplies and chemicals from B&H, and I'm planning to mix the chemicals tonight and

develop film tomorrow. I've developed film before, in a photo class, so I'm looking for comments on the part I

haven't done before: mixing and storing the chemicals. (I'm pretty good in the chemistry lab, too, so the

chemical/measurement aspects of this don't scare me; I'm mainly worried about things that I may be doing which

could ruin my negatives...)

<br><br>

Here's my plan:

<ol><li>Yesterday, I washed a gallon milk jug and measured exactly 3000 mL of water into it. I put a black

Sharpie mark around the water level, and then added another 800 mL and marked that level as well. I measured the

water as I emptied the jug, too, as a check.</li>

<li>My plan is to get my powdered D-76 into the jug, add hot tap water until I get 3L, put the cap on, and shake

it. I'll then add water until I hit the 3800 mL mark.</li>

<li>Using a funnel, I'll pour the developer into a 1-gallon brown plastic chemical storage jug (from B&H). I'll

then put glass marbles in until there's almost no empty space, and cap the jug.</li>

<li>I haven't put much thought into the fixer, but I'll mix it using some large beakers/graduated cylinders I

have and then put it into a clean milk jug (plus a 1L soda bottle to handle the overflow - I think it makes 1.25

gal).</li>

<li>Obviously, I'll clean up everything, make sure it's appropriately labeled and stored, etc...</li>

<li>As a test, tomorrow I'm planning to develop an old roll of TMax 100. It expired 9 years ago, but it's been

kept in the refrigerator, and I mainly just want to make sure everything works OK. Plus, low-speed black and

white film keeps for a long time, right?</li>

</ol>

<br>

Questions:

<ul><li>Will shaking the jug affect the developer?</li>

<li>Would it be wise to get 4, 32oz (~1L) bottles and split the developer into those instead of a giant, 1gal

container?</li>

<li>There won't be any adverse effects from the glass marbles, will there?</li>

<li>Is it OK to just put a tiny bit of wetting agent into the developing tank when it's time and then run water

on it, or should I mix it beforehand?</li>

<li>Are there any special considerations for the storage of mixed fixer?</li>

<li>I don't know why, but for some reason I'm not as worried about mixing/storing fixer as I am developer...is

this OK?</li>

<li>I've read that it's OK to just run water on the film for 30s~1min instead of stop. Comments?</li></ul>

<br>OK, so what am I forgetting? Where did I/will I screw up when I do this?<br><br>Your help is very appreciated.

[cdzombak]

Another question, which I forgot: What is it OK to reuse? How many times? Should I store the solution to be reused separately (it seems like I should)?

[david_dorcich1]

Developers oxidize, that's why they have a limited shelf life. When you mix them from powder is better to just stir the solution, shaking it will introduce more air into the mixture and in theory reduce the useful life of the developer.

 

I just use a 1 gallon jugs to store my chemicals, i haven't had any problems with d-76 going bad since i have always ended up using all of it before that happens. The simplest way to use it is as a one-shot mix. It isn't very expensive and you don't have to keep track of a replenishing solution if you just toss out the developer when you are done with it.

 

Fixer can be reused, and it has a much higher useful capacity than developer. i use a Hypo-check solution to text the fixer before i use it. It is very cheap and simple way to test to make sure the fixer is still good.

 

Water is an effective stop bath for film, I fill and empty the film tank twice instead of using a stop bath.

[lex_jenkins]

Sounds like you're taking a reasonably methodical approach, always a good idea.

 

Regarding mixing the developer, shaking *might* produce oxidation that could shorten the life of the developer. But I doubt it'd be significant. Most manufacturers recommend stirring.

 

Dividing the stock solution into smaller containers is a good idea. But if you plan to develop enough film to use up the gallon of stock solution fairly quickly, and you prefer using a single container, it should be fine as you've described.

 

I've never bothered with tricks such as adding marbles to minimize airspace. Some folks report success with this technique. I suppose it could introduce yet another variable, such as unknown materials interacting with the photo chemistry, but marbles are probably inert enough to cause no problems.

 

Rapid fixer tends to last a long time without special precautions. Generally speaking it's exhausted through use, not through extended storage. I've seen prepared fixer go bad after a few years without use, but that's an extreme situation.

 

Download a read the various PDFs from the Ilford website (ilfordphoto.com) for tips on their suggestions for archival processing. It's efficient and works well. I don't always use a stop bath with film development, tho' it depends on circumstances. For example, with development times shorter than 10 minutes I'm more likely to use a stop bath since all timing is critical. Same with multi-reel development, since pour times are longer. With 10 minute or longer development times and one or two reel tanks, I don't bother.

 

Reuse of chemicals depends on several factors.

 

I prefer one-shot or recyclable developers (HC-110 or Diafine). With ID-11 I mix up a liter at a time, use it one-shot, 1+1, and use it up as quickly as possible to minimize variables (some developers, including ID-11/D76, tend to change characteristics slightly over time). With Microphen for push processing I tend to reuse it as stock solution, ten uses per liter. I just dump it back into the container, mix it, and reuse it. Some folks like to add a bit of time with each reuse. I don't bother. Run your own tests to see what works for you.

 

I reuse fixer repeatedly until it approaches exhaustion, which can be tested easily. I mix up three batches of rapid fixer: one for T-Max films; one for all other films; one for paper. T-Max films exhaust rapid fixer approximately twice as quickly as most films. I get 10 uses per liter with T-Max films, 20 with other films such as Tri-X. Paper fixer should be kept separate. For one thing, it's a different dilution. For another, paper fibers can become embedded into the negative emulsion. Some folks are concerned about the sludge from reused fixer. Since the sludge is very heavy and settles quickly to the bottom I haven't found it to be a problem. But run your own tests and decide for yourself.

[andrew_gale]

Two tips,

 

1. cut the milk bottle and stir with an old serving spoon or the like. Less air etc in the developer, funnel to the brown jug.

 

2. Use distilled water, its 75 cents a gallon at walmart, thats nothing compare to chemistry, film and paper, and it makes the chemistry purer and last longer? I havnt had an experiance with chemistry being too old, but im told that distilled water helps.

 

3. Dont bother with four quart size jugs. If you develope enough film, and use 1:1 single shot, you should run out before air is a significant issue. Dont bother with marbles either.

[ronald_moravec1]

If you read the developer instructions, they tell you to add small amounts and disolve it before adding more. Limit violent agitation so as to ingest minimal air into the solution.

 

D76 is best stored in small ontime use glass bottles. 4 oz ones work for me. D76 is known to change activity level in partially full bottles in as little as 5 days. First it goes up rapidly, then dies fast.

In a sealed full bottle it is good for 6 months. When you print on #2, #1, then 3 or 4 you will know why.

 

You can get away with 4 one liter bottles which you decant one at a time to smaller bottles thus you need less small ones.

 

Do not use for 24 hours after mixing.

 

Distilled water may or may not give good results. I get grain as big as golf balls with distilled and I know other who do also, so be careful. Plain old Lake Michigan works for me.

 

Careful workers will notice time changes if the water supply changes.

[james_ollinger]

"I've read that it's OK to just run water on the film for 30s~1min instead of stop."

 

Developer needs an alkaline environment to work. When you plunge it into stop bath, you're hitting it with a chemical

at a lower pH. This drops the developer's pH down below the level where the chemical reactions can take place, and

development is halted. Acetic acid has a much lower pH than water, so the development halts ASAP.

 

You can do the same thing with water but it's not as dramatic a change in pH and not as efficient. How long do you

have to use a water bath to effectively stop development? I don't know. I knew someone who did it 30 years ago and

he washed it for 10 minutes, which wasted a huge amount of time and water. But I don't think he came up with 10

minutes from any kind of science or experimental results.

 

The other thing the Stop bath does is keeps the developer from contaminating the fix bath. You can shorten the

fixer's life and effectiveness if you bring residual developer into it, and that can bite you later on down the road.

 

Acetic acid is cheap, fast, and lasts a long time in B&W work. Is it really that important to substitute it out?

[cdzombak]

I suspected that shaking the developer could increase the dissolved oxygen content; I'll find a better way, somehow. I can't but the top off of the jug, because then it will be nearly impossible to pour.

 

I want to be very careful with storage; I see myself using one gallon of D-76 in ~3 months (just a wild guess, though). I'll just order 4, 32-oz bottles (or maybe 8, 16-oz bottles) and be careful with them. I just checked, and I don't have enough marbles to make any difference, so I'll forget that for now.

 

Let me say: I fully understand how development works and how stop works (acid neutralizes base or even makes solution acidic -> development stops), but I think a healthy dose of water will usually work fine. That being said, I might just take some distilled vinegar and dilute it rather than using only water - maybe only for when timing is critical. I don't have an aversion to using dedicated stop, either; I just don't have any. Maybe I'll order some from B&H when I get my storage bottles...

 

As for reuse, I'm planning to reuse fixer (keeping track of how many times it's been used, of course). (Side note: fixer is not photosensitive, correct?) D-76 will just be dumped, and Microphen (I bought some of that to experiment with a little bit down the road; one reason I want to get into developing is to try pushing to really high ISOs) will be reused a few times. I apologize for the very long and confusing sentence.

 

I think tap water will be OK; I've heard more bad things about distilled water than tap water, and I also understand that these chemicals are buffered to handle some impurities in the water.

 

One last question: when should I use D-76 1:1 and when should I use the stock solution? I recall reading *something* about it, but I can't remember what.

 

Finally, thank you for all your help, everyone! I'll be sure to let you know how this turns out.

[robert lee]

"I can't but the top off of the jug, because then it will be nearly impossible to pour. "

 

I'm trying to figure out how to store Xtol stock, which according to folklore is infamous for oxidation induced

failure. The best idea I've come across is to re-use emptied wine-in-a-box containers. Whatever you might think

about $5/gallon wine, the bladder is designed to protect a product even more oxidation sensitive than film

developer. I especially like the fact that liquid can be tapped without introducing any displacement air.

 

I'm also going to try a couple of 96oz coffee to go cardboard carafes from the like of Starbucks. The liquid is

held in mylar bladders as well.

[cdzombak]

I've mixed the developer, and I believe it's a success. Next week, I'll transfer it to smaller bottles for storage.

One note - next time, I need to use something better than a milk jug for mixing. It was hard to get the powder to dissolve, and additionally, milk jugs at 125 deg F are *way* more malleable and subject to deformation than the rigid containers we see them as at 40 deg F.

 

The Ilford Rapid Fixer says that I need a 1:4 mix for film. I assume that means that since I have 500 mL of concentrate, I should mix it with 2000 mL of water?

[frank.schifano]

I mix my powdered developers in a mop bucket, actually 2 mop buckets. They cost a couple of bucks tops, and they last forever. For stirring, I got a plastic stotted spoon. The drill for D-76 goes like this:

 

Step 1: Heat 3L of clean tap water to the appropriate temperature. Decant to bucket #1.

 

Step 2: Slowly add the contents of the package to the water while stirring. Continue until dissolved.

 

Step 3: Using a 1L measuring device, I measure the contents into bucket #2. The fourth measure will not completely fill the graduate. Top that off to 800 ml. with cold water and add it to bucket #2.

 

Step 4: Stir again and decant the contents of bucket #2 into smaller bottles.

 

Don't shake to mix. That's asking for trouble down the road and not recommended by the manufacturer. Kodak, Ilford, et. al., have been making this stuff for a long time. They know what they're doing. Recycled soda pop bottles are perfectly serviceable as developer storage containers.

[chris_waller]

I store diluted stop and fixer in old 2 litre domestic bleach bottles; these have air-tight, child-proof caps. Also, I filter all the water for film processing through a 10 micron filter; the one I have was made by Ametek, now I believe part of Osmicron.

 

I keep mixed stop and fixer for weeks, even months. Keep them in a relatively cool place and there will be no problem. Only once, during a very hot spell, did my fixer go off and turn cloudy.

 

I wash using the Ilford Method and then dunk the film in a jug of water plus wetting agent, agitating gently for about a minute. I don't put wetting agent into the tank since, after washing, the tank is clean and I don't want to contaminate it again. I mix the wetting agent into the water by putting about 50 ml water in the jug, then the required number of drops of wetting agent and then mixing thoroughly but trying to avoid excessive foaming. Then I top the jug up to the required level, again trying to avoid excessive foaming.

[cdzombak]

I did end up shaking a little to mix the developer, but not very much. Oh well, I'll try to use this batch quickly and be extra careful with storage. I'll try Frank's method next time.

 

Chris: thanks for the suggestion re:washing; I'll keep that in mind and I might try it. We'll see.

[james_ollinger]

"One last question: when should I use D-76 1:1 and when should I use the stock solution? I recall reading *something* about it, but I can't remember what."

 

Higher dilutions typically give you higher acutance and a little bit of compensating effect. I like that, so I always used the highest recommended dilution of whatever I developer I was using. Since I also like using developer as one-shot (use one and discard), diluting is more economical than using it straight.

[gt1]

I've been looking for a summary of what happens when:

 

you dilute developer

push film

raise the developing temps

lengthen the time

agititate more/less

 

as far as grain, contrast, accutance, density, etc., go.

 

Does anyone have a nice page that summarizes these variables? Thanks.

[michael_oneill2]

Bleach, wine, soda pop, coffee?? I've used glass wine bottles in a pinch, but glass is non-reactive and easy to

clean. But plastic? How can you be sure there's no residue of its former contents?

[gnashings]

One thing that I recall from chemistry class is to always add powder to liquid, not the other way around. Should not matter in a small throated milk jug, but still, you may want to add slowly and stir as the powder dissolves.

I may get crucified for this, but I have been using water bottles (Nestle Pure Life mainly, because they are squishy). They come in a variety of sizes and I just squeeze them until the liquid fills the bottle and replace the cap. Sure, they look ugly as hell, all bent out of shape, but I have never had one fail and in my use, the chems have never gone bad. Cheap, and comes in a variet of sizes - I mark dates on the caps and big black letters tell me what's in the bottle courtesy of a permanent marker. After they are empty, they are further crumpled and thrown in the recycling.

[jpo3136b]

I have got to tell you that I never feel good about using anything that looks like it might have contained food or beverages

when it comes to chemistry. Although you may properly label everything, one day there may be an accident.

 

Good luck!

[michael_best2]

I've noted several comments on oxidation, to which I will add. The mixing process seems to have been adequately

covered, and for the record, I use dedicated small (2 gallon) buckets for developers and fixer. Simply introducing stop

bath concentrate to the appropriate amount of water and mixing seems to work. I use distilled water for developers only,

have never encountered a problem. Seems like there is a sludging effect with developers, at least with dektol, so I filter

all chemistry through a filter funnel immediately prior to use. Letting D76 rest for 24 hours is a must, but there will

sometimes still be some residual crystals in the solution that can cause problems. It may or may not be a concern, but

the dried chemistry around the threads of the cap are eliminated with this filtration. I use arista air evac bottles for most

of my chemistry, including fixer and stop bath, even if it may not be absolutely essential for these two. I store in regular

dark plastic containers only when I can fill them completely to the top. All of my containers are dedicated to their

particular chemistry. Hypo eliminator: I don't worry about it's oxidation in stock solution. Doesn't seem to be a problem.

In working solution, I try to eliminate the air. D76 I use 1:1, mixed as I use it, but when I get to the point I can no longer

eliminate the air from the stock solution bottle, I mix it 1:1, and store it in air evac bottle and use it ASAP.

 

Mike Best

[wclark5179]

I tried using 1 gallon milk jugs but what I ran into is it semms that I couldn't get the empty bottles properly washed and

always ended up with mold growing in the stock solution, especially the developer. The milk just didn't seem to

completely wash out of the plastic. Is milk jug plastic perhaps a wee bit porous? Cheap molds? A few years ago I tried

2 liter soda bottles and they work wonderfully well. Perhaps they are made of a different plastic and they seem to be

less porous than milk bottles.

 

Thought I'd share my experience as perhaps it could help.

 

Have a wonderful week!

[frank.schifano]

Well yes, pop bottles and milk jugs are two different animals. Pop bottles are PETE (PolyEthylene Terephtalate). while milk jugs are made of HDPE (High Density Polyethelene). Pop bottles are engineered to contain pressure. That alone should remove any doubt that they are too gas permeable to be used as containers for photo chemistry. Milk jugs don't need to be built for those conditions and they aren't. The caps don't seal well and the HDPE is more gas permeable than PETE.

 

Now the contents. Soda pop is nothing more than flavored sugar water. It washes out completely with a couple of quick water rinses. Any remaining smell is in the cap, and it does no harm if you can't get it out. Milk is water, fat, proteins, and sugars. Fats and proteins are sticky and not very water soluble, so they don't easily rinse out of the more textured HDPE.