Retroactive Trespassing Charges?

[david_littleboy]

I feel like there should be a "legal questions" section of photo.net. But I digress.

 

I'm planning to do a photoshoot in an abandoned building near my hometown. About a year ago, several people were

arrested for trespassing in the building. Obviously, if police saw you occupying someone else's property without

the owner's permission you would be charged with trespassing, but can tresspassing charges be applied

retroactively if someone saw the photos and told police? i.e. After the fact, can you get trespassing charges

for taking pictures that were obviously taken on other's property?

 

Thanks,

_____________ (I don't really want my name to be attached to this post, haha)

[Matt Laur]

It seems that <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7526946.stm" target="_blank"><b>Halle Berry is looking into exactly the same issue</b></a>. Essentially, the photographs of her child are proof that the photographer who took them was trespassing at the time. She's asking police to look into it. That will be an interesting one to follow.

[bobatkins]

Trespass laws vary from country to country, state to state and local jurisdiction to local jurisdiction. It can be a crime or it can be a tort.

 

You're not going to get any sort of definative answer here. I doubt you'll get a definitive answer anywhere unless you actually consult a local lawyer who is versed in trespass law for your city/state.

 

"If you can't do the time, don't do the crime", as they used to say. Just assume they catch you in the act. Are you prepared for the consequences? Are the photos you might get worth the risk?

[jan_piller]

I come from an area where a tresspassing fine is $70.00. If I found an abandoned building worth shooting in it might be worth the 70.00! But you gotta make sure you don't "break" anything to get in, otherwise it's "break and enter" .

[david_littleboy]

Thanks everyone already. I hadn't heard about the Halle Berry incident, but that's interesting too.

 

I should mention that I live in the USA in Washington State.

 

Jan Piller, The pictures would hopefully be worth 70 dollars, it's an amazing old building. I wouldn't be breaking anything to get in, the door is unlocked.

 

Thanks.

[keith selmes]

Depends what country it is, or even what state in what country, and what is the nature of the trespass.<BR>

In England, if you simply walked on someone else's property, I don't think the police would be very interested.<BR>

If you damaged property thats different - e.g. you broke a fence or gate to get in<BR>

If you were asked to leave, and didn't, that's different again.<BR>

Or possibly, if you took photos without their permission, and tried to use them commercially, don't know where thats going<BR><BR>

The law is even different in Scotland though.

The news story refers to trespass being illegal in California, but doesn't give a definition of trespass.<BR>

[fullmetalphotograper]

In the U.S.A. You are looking at Criminal Trespass and Breaking & Entering. There is a statue of limitations (length

depends on jurisdiction) and wether or not a DA or property owner wants to charge. Also there is civil actions that can be

taken. If you use shoots of the property without a release for commercial use you could be sued.

[walter_degroot]

is there a realtors sign on the building?

or some indication who owns or is reponsible for it?

is there "a warning keep oit" with a telephone number

is there a local hisorical society, they might know who owns the building or is resposible for it and may even want photos thheir archives.

[david_littleboy]

Walter,

 

To answer your question, there is no "no tresspassing" sign. through research I found that the building is owned by "out of town investors", but I cannot find any way to locate them (otherwise I would). No realator's sign either. Calling a historical society would be a good idea, but I don't know if there is one in the town the building is in.

 

thanks.

[tonmestrom]

first of all it seems to me that it shouldn't be that hard to track the owner down, put some effort into if you're that keen. It seems to me that you live in a country that keeps records of anything. Surely you must have a land registry there that should know.

 

On the other hand, if there is no trespassing sign I would have made prints by now.

[mostly sports]

It's impossible to give you legal advice, which is what you're asking for. Here in New Hampshire, if it's not posted, it's not

trespass. Your local laws may vary.

[richard_beisigl]

Go to your local tax assessors office and see if they can look up the proerty owner(s). Make sure you have the street address as well as the two cross streets.

Even better, give them a gps coordinates.

[jdipierro]

I'm in the same boat as Phil and I would assume most places in the US are. If there are no "Posted: No Trespassing" signs, and the place is not a legal residence, as long as you don't break anything, no legal charges can be placed against you. I've been into three separate abandoned locations. I went into an abandoned hotel. I had requested permission and was denied so I just went early in the morning. Great photos. I also went to a ghost town but that is basically open ground to anyone. And I went to an abandoned amusement park-type place. I just HAPPENED to pick the one day out of the year to go when the town mayor was there... I was calm, didn't run, didn't look suspicious, I approached them, spoke respectfully, and gave them a business card and they kindly asked me to leave the property, which I did.

 

Photographing abandonment can be a sticky business due to irresponsible teenagers, but it can also be very rewarding. If you're really interested in that sort of thing check out www.uer.ca I warn you though there are a lot of very immature people on there.

[digitmstr]

If the photos were for a commercial shoot, like a magazine spread, ad, TV ad, etc... not only could you get charged with criminal issues (if your State allows it) but, you can be charged for location fees as well other compensation if the owner decided to take you to civil court (which would be in addition to any criminal issue).

 

Private property is just that. Even if a building looks 'abandoned', it isn't. Either it has an owner or, in some cases, the city may have taken over ownership. Either way, it's *never* a wise move to trespass. Whereas local laws do vary no State I know of condones it altogether. In addition, any civil action the owner decides to take against you will be separate and in addition to any (possibly) criminal charge. For example: the owner can sue you for a variety of reasons involving liability, unauthorized entry, unauthorized commercial use of property, etc...

 

Just ASK permission to use the space, especially since the building has already been subject to trespassing issues of which YOU are clearly AWARE! So, you can't even claim ignorance...which isn't a defense in many cases.

[digitmstr]

As for the legal question section that will NEVER happen, not here, not in any forums!

 

Legal advice you can ONLY get from a lawyer whom you have RETAINED for a fee and subsequent the execution of a contract stating the terms of services the attorney will provide for your specific case and needs.

 

But, many times it's a matter of common sense. And this, is clearly one of those times.

 

Trespassing is NEVER, EVER a good/cool idea. Not to mention that some states authorize the use of deadly force if the owner/renter of a building thinks he's being robbed!

[kelly_flanigan1]

What if the building is not really abandoned? What if the chap is sleeping and was robbed awhile back and keeps a loaded gun by the bed; maybe the first shell is rock salt; the next shell birdshot; the next buckshot? Do you feel lucky with the trespass? What if its a castle state and later you are 6 ft under and dont have a day in court to plea? You also might just stumble on some illegal activity by mutants/fringe who have little to loose with hasseling you or worse. There maybe nobody to run to once you have trespassed and discovered the fringe economys folks living on the edge.

[charles_stobbs3]

There may be a statute of limititations (a month, a year) and if you wait until the time has passed before publishing the pictures you may be off the hook.

[Uncle Goose]

I'm doing Urban Exploration for years now (look at my website on www.urbanprojects.be) and never had a fine or any punishment whatsoever, even after all these years that my photographs are online. Of course, I live in Belgium, nobody makes a big deal about a photographer entering a building to take photographs. Depending on you the location where you live you can get fines or jail time. I know a couple of US guys who are on probation due of Urban Exploration.

[steve_swinehart]

"...but I cannot find any way to locate them (otherwise I would)."

 

Go to the local county assessor's office and look at the tax bill for the property - that will tell who's paying the property taxes. In many cases, the county may have the information available online. Where I live, you can look up any piece of property in the county online and find out the taxes + owner.