Has the ability to replace a posted photo with a corrected version been removed?

[iancoxleigh]

I tried to swap out my post image with a correct version this morning (as I have done many times in the past) and

couldn't get the new file to replace the old despite doing exactly what I have always done.

 

See here for what I was trying to do:

 

http://www.photo.net/photo/7599289

 

Is this ability disabled? I was allowed to select a file in the 'edit image info' screen and it did seem to

upload when I hit confirm. But, the changed image isn't displayed and I have refreshed and hard-refreshed the

page several times.

 

I would rather not lose Joseph's comment and have to repost the whole image.

[gordonjb]

Ian;

 

When this happened to me a few weeks back the new image did eventually swap out. In the past swapping an image happened instantly or in a few minutes at most. The last few times I have done this it can takes 24 hours or more before the new image appears. Page refreshing has no effect.

[bobatkins]

As far as I know it hasn't been removed (i.e. nobody has told me about any changes), but personally I'd like it to be!

 

We do have more caching then we did, so maybe if you wait a while you'll see a change.

 

If you upload a new image, then the comments relate to the old image, which makes no sense unless the old image is still there. You could have a picture of a cat and replace it with a picture of a steam engine. I know that's not the case in this instance, but if you can make minor changes you can just as easily make major changes.

 

Posting a revised versionof the image in the discussion thread would make a lot more sense than replacing the original image, which I think should stay there forever (or until you remove it and the whole thread with it).

[iancoxleigh]

Bob, this particular image is one I haven't sent for critique yet and I don't want the uncorrected image to be the one that gets displayed in the critique forum and used in the rate-recent interface. Even if it has already been sent for critique, I don't want to have the older version displayed in my portfolio page -- I want the corrected one displayed.

 

I often have 20-post discussions on some of my images. These occasionally lead to changes in the image itself. I don't want to lose the discussion, I don't want to double post the image and I don't want display the older version in my portfolio page. For all those reasons it makes best sense to allow me to swap out the files.

 

If the system forced me to display the older file with which I was no longer satisfied, I would be forced to delete the whole thread. I think that would be a significant loss since I have had several people comment (some by email some in posts) on how useful reading those threads was for their own photography. That reading the discussion was of benefit and seeing the resulting changes a useful teaching aid.

 

Gordon, thanks, I'll be patient and see if it changes later.

[gordonjb]

Ian;

 

Try hitting the' contribute a critique' button and see if the new image appears above the text box. When I swapped out an image recently of a Cyp. acuale, following making a change suggested to me, the new image showed up right away above the critique text box, but did not show up on the actual page until the next day.

[bobatkins]

Ian - if you can't see the original image, before any changes were made, the teaching value of any such thread is greatly reduced. If you're intent is to teach, you have to show your mistakes as well as your surceases. People probably learn more from seeing the mistakes of others anyway!

 

If you only want your best work shown, then it's not really teaching. It may show a final image but it doesn't show the process of how you got there.

 

Here's the standard question we should ask: "What if everyone was continuously changing their images and leaving comments on the images they removed in place". Answer - it would be chaos. That's why my opinion is that if you post an image and it gets any comments, it should stay. You could delete the whole thread, but not the image. That's my opinion and that's my input to those who are running the gallery. Whether or not they listen to me is another matter entirely...

[iancoxleigh]

"Ian - if you can't see the original image, before any changes were made, the teaching value of any such thread is greatly reduced. If you're intent is to teach, you have to show your mistakes as well as your surceases. People probably learn more from seeing the mistakes of others anyway!"

 

I agree with that in general and that is why I ALWAYS attach the original to a post in the discussion thread at the time I make the change.

 

Since there is no guarantee that everyone would do that, it should be simple to redesign the photo page to allow the displayed image to change, but put small links to all previous edits just below the image on the page.

[gordonjb]

My work around solution to the aspect of learning from mistakes is to replace the original file with the adjusted file and then make a posting stated that I have done so. In this posting I always attach a copy of the original file because I do agree that it is useful to be able to view the original file as a learning tool. I picked this habit up from following threads on the work of some long time members here. So far it does not seem to have created any confusion and I have manage to control my urge to swap out cats for trains :-)

[JDMvW]

I never knew you COULD replace pictures posted in threads! Gadzooks, Bob notwithstanding, this would let me change some embarrassments ! How do I do this? ;)

 

But in replacing pictures in a portfolio, I think it's appropriate to replace so long as you put a note in the comment section that you have responded to a comment and changed the picture. Of course, if there are no comments, what's the difference?

[JDMvW]

Oh, I meant to add also that I have sometimes experienced long delays before the picture posted was refreshed to the new image. You just need to be patient.

[bobatkins]

Ian - I agree that a notice that "This image has replaced an earlier version" along with a link to that earlier version would be quite acceptable. The only downside of that is it probably needs 50x the programing effort of just removing the ability to change the image!

 

Still, I'd recommend it as something Josh might add to his ever growing list of requests to the programmers.

[gordonjb]

Josh does not have to add anything to his list. The ability to exchange one image for another already exists and always has. The only way Josh would have to do anything is if he adopts Bob's idea and takes this ability away from us.

[joshroot]

The only changes I am likely to make is to set it up so that any ratings an image has been given are deleted if it has been submitted to the critique forum and then had it's image switched. If it were easy, I might also "grey" out the comments that related to a previous version and note that they do not necessarily pertain to the current version at. that way the comments would remain, but we could defeat the cheating that goes on by some of the more pathetic people on the site.

 

But overall, this is low on my list. I've got a lot of other more important stuff to attend to right now.

[johncrosley]

Hi all (and Bob)

 

We had this discussion about four years back when I had an image that was good, but just too blurred to show in my portfolio. I liked it and invited critiques. Through some 40+ (maybe even 60) comments and critiques, it was worked out how to sharpen it, which involved more than just a 'sharpening in Photoshop but also taking a print of the photo to a photo finisher and running it through their big Noritsu machine for the Noritsu sharpening.

 

Then I sharpened that print, got an image that I could post in my portfolio, it has received an enormous number of views, and I count the improved version among my best.

 

I replaced the original image with the rescanned and multiple sharpened image. And in doing so, I posted the original image.

 

The photo is found in my single photo, color portfolio, 'Don't Look Back, I Think We're Being Followed' which shows two pedestrians, father and son, being apparently followed by a school of salmon (and dedicated to cartoonist Gary Larson)

 

I wanted that photo to be shown among my best, and it is and proudly so, though it still has many sharpening artifacts, but I also posted it and kept all the comments as a teaching tool, also proudly so as I have learned many members peruse my numerous comments for 'how-to' lessons, and I have received much personal feedback that the 'sharpening' lessons on that photo have been helpful to others.

 

Far from seeking to 'cover up' my 'mistakes' (of which there was none: just a very long, hand-held exposure through a passenger side car window on a rainy night), I am proud to have learned from my fellow members and to have learned how to sharpen an image that could not be sharpened through conventional image editing means, AND to share that with other members, AND to show both the results (in my portfolio) AND to post the original photo in comments.

 

Numerous references were made in comments to the process so there would be no mistaking that the 'original' submitted photo was not the photo being displayed, and that the photo displayed was the collegial work of myself and my PN contributors (many thanks again to all who helped).

 

If someone who replaces an image is held to a simple, good faith rule, of being required to post an original of the image in a comment somewhere to show that the image has been replaced (if major work has been done), then that might clarify any concerns that Bob has identified.

 

But that would only apply if comment(s) have been made that take into account the particular change, and that usually takes place only if the image has been submitted for critique.

 

On several occasions, | have posted a photo in which the horizon in a landscape might have been a trifle off, and been able to replace it with a slightly corrected image. What good is that to keep that photo in my portfolio? I am not here per se to 'teach' although Lord Knows I get plenty of thanks for doing just that, and a major part of my effort is seen by fellow members here as a teaching mission.

 

I do want to post some of my best work, not 'work in progress', and if I post a work in progress that needs improving, and it gets critiques, then those critiques are taken into account. If they are major, I might (on very rare occasions) repost by replacing the image with some suggestion taken into account, and IF I DO, I ALWAYS TRY TO ACKNOWLEDGE WHAT I HAVE DONE. For instance if I have slightly increased the contrast or the darkness of a photo, I'll try always to acknowledge that.

 

Of course, if I take down an image that is a failure, I feel I do a great disservice to all the wonderful PN members who have helped me achieve a better photo, more worthy of posting in my portfolio, and I know if I post a major suggestion in someone's portfolio about a photo. and they take my suggestion, I would far rather that they acknowledge my help and replace the photo (and post with an acknowledging comment the original photo).

 

Bob, many of us try to show some sense of maturity about our membership on this service, and although 'teaching' is not my main goal, it is not overlooked either.

 

I hope this helps the discussion.

 

John (Crosley)

[gordonjb]

Josh;

 

" If it were easy, I might also "grey" out the comments that related to a previous version and note that they do not necessarily pertain to the current version at. that way the comments would remain, but we could defeat the cheating that goes on by some of the more pathetic people on the site. "

 

You have aroused my curiosity. I am trying to figure out what these " pathetic people" would be trying to gain. I must be overlooking something obvious, please help me out. I suppose you could win a debate about whether your train was a cat by swapping out the train for a cat but I have a feeling that's not what you're alluding to.

[bobatkins]

You don't have to figure out exactly how people will use parts of the system to gain advantage. They'll figure it out.

 

I'm off now to post a picture of a cat, get lots of comments on it, then switch it out for a picture of a steam engine. I

haven't quite figured out how I'll gain advantage from this, but I'm working on it...

 

Perhaps it will draw undue attention to my portfolio when it gets reported. There's no such thing as bad publicity.

 

Josh - greying out all previous comments when the image is switched isn't a bad idea and to me it doesn't sound like

it would require a huge amount of reprogramming (though I appreciate that with our resources, any amount of

reprogramming means that something else won't get worked on). Of course the easier option is simply to turn off the

ability to switch images.That's a 10 second fix. If the OP wants to post a new version, they can do it within the

comments thread. Then all comments following the new image would apply to the new image.

[joshroot]

I'm not AGAINST the idea of switching out images. Because when used in the context of actually learning, a new image could be uploaded as an "improved" version. I'm against the ratings cheating that comes with switching images and the confusion that can occur when images are switched and the switched is not acknowledged or mentioned by the photographer.

[iancoxleigh]

Just a post script: The image has finally updated and I have posted it for critique now.

 

Gordon, clicking on the "contribute a critique" button didn't show the update any quicker than the main page upon refreshing -- for me -- this time.

[tonmestrom]

I think John hit it on the nail. You can learn a lot from that. Just as Gordon I've have on occasion replaced a image after some flaws where pointed out but made it always known that I did. I don't see a real problem there. It certainly makes dialogue somewhat easier.

 

And although there are always some who will cheat if they get too much ways to work around any given system the question is who are they fooling. My answer would be just themselves because one has to be a real twat for that and that will quickly become obvious.

 

Greying out earlier comments could be a nice way to get around that.