Non-Payment

[jay_m.]

I have a bride from last year that has not paid her final balance and I wanted to know what I should do to next. Quick

back story she had a Videography package, everything was captured and came out very well. I sent her an example

DVD a few months ago so she could preview it and advise me on any changes. I took her 2 weeks but she emailed

me and said it was great and she only wanted to change one song. The change was made and the final DVDs were

created. I then emailed her invoice and waited for payment before shipping the new discs. Weeks go by and nothing

comes in. So a few weeks latter I email her and mail her the 2nd invoice, this one said it was past due and payment

was due now. Still nothing, So I give her a call and she says that she got the invoice but couldn't pay it yet, having

just had a baby and need more time. I asked how long she would need and said 2 weeks would be great. So I wait

another 2 weeks and nothing comes in. So now I'm mad and I create a 3rd past due invoice, I marked on it that her

account is past due and that non-payment would be breach of contract, and that every week that payment is not

made from this point on a late fee will be added to her final balance. I sent the invoice/letter certified and confirmed

that she signed for it.

 

My question is if she doesn't pay what should I do ? Its $300 not a huge amount of money but its something, the

work was done I want to get paid. We have a signed contract but she might just keep the example DVD and try to

screw me. What should I do next ?

[ellis_vener_photography]

put her on a payment plan: $50.00- $100.00 per month .

[edrodgers]

So much stress for you and pressure on the new Mom over $300 seems a little crazy. I wouldn't send past due notices and threats of late fees. I would have simply kept in contact until she either paid, or expressed that she wouldn't pay.

 

The whole problem could have been avoided if you had asked for payment in advance of the wedding. I think if you expect newlyweds and new parents to have money and be willing to pay promptly 100% of the time, you are going to be disappointed.

[rayt]

You have just learned a lesson that you have paid with your own money. She will in all probability keep the sample DVD and you will never get paid. If you get an attorney you will pay more than what you will recover. You can try small claims court but balance that against the hassle and your time.

 

Chalk it up to experience. Next time do not provide any DVD or media that can be kept. Have the client view the video at your place, you keep the DVD. In effect you are holding the DVD hostage for the final payment.

 

Or put her head on a naked body and post it on youtube. (That was humor!!)

[jc5066]

Jay,

 

Does your contract state anything about a late fee? If not, you can't charge it and only make yourself look bad.

 

Your next step is obvious. Small claims court.

 

This is why you collect BEFORE the day of the wedding. If you did this, you would never be put in this situation.

[vincedistefano]

Don't know what software you use, but with mine I watermark my DVD video and put a notice on the front and back that it's a preview disc, do not make authorized copies, disk is my property, etc.

[annealmasy]

Let it go.

 

You may never see this money, and stressing yourself out about it won't help. Just stash her DVDs in a safe place, and if

she shows up one day with a check you can hand them over. Otherwise, you'll just be taking up a couple inches of space

on a shelf somewhere.

 

And in the future, as has already been mentioned, require payment in full before you've done any work on the final product.

[jay_m.]

Thanks for the feedback - Her contact doesn't say anything about late fees, so I wont be able to charge her extra anyway. Just as a side note because of this bride I have now changed my contract since then to included late fees for non payment. I don't collect in full before the wedding because with the video editing it takes much more time. And if they pay if full before the Brides want there DVDs like a week after the wedding. So to save me stress I let them keep the other half of the package price until its done. I didn't water mark her DVD, witch I'm kicking myself for, but have started to watermark all DVDs made from that point on. I think that will give me more protection in the future, as for getting an attorney it would cost me nothing since my brother is one. Like I said the $300 is not the end of the world but I just hate getting the run around. If she cant pay it right now then just pick up the phone or email me to tell me. I'm not heartless I understand just SAY SOMETHING ! The fact she keeps telling me she will pay but then doesn't upsets me the most. I'm not sure what I will do but thanks for the advice.

[ShunCheung]

Jay, these customers are not going to care about watermarks. Make sure that they pay in full before you send any preview DVD or you can meet somewhere to watch the preview but they don't get to keep any DVD (any video).

 

Assume that you'll never get that $300. Consider that as your "tuition."

[ed farmer - mount laurel,]

I am glad that it only took two replies to get to my point, which is that you have to start getting payment in advance. You just can't rely on people to pay you after the work is done. Many (I am not suggesting that this woman is doing this) will figure that you will be happy to give them something for less now because all of the work is done.

 

I realize that this doesn't help you with you current situation. I would also ofter to allow her to pay you something monthly, but she still doesn't get the final product until it is paid for. Remember, you are in this business to get paid for your products. Unless you are not in the business for that, in which case you should just send her the DVD with pretty little note.

 

Ed

[joshroot]

Because of situations like this, I have always gotten paid in full before the wedding date. It has not affected my business one bit and I always have the cash in hand. I wouldn't do it any other way.

 

Now, if a b/g said "look, times are tight, we really can't come up with all of the cash before the wedding." I would probably consider working something out with them. but I wouldn't NEVER deliver any finished product in any situation before I had the cash in my pocket. Your auto mechanic doesn't let you drive away with your repaired car before you hand him the cash, why should work like this be any different?

[alec_myers]

Just a thought: as an alternative to "late fees", you can always give an equivalent discount for early payment. Then there's no problem about asking for the higher amount. In fact that works lots of ways: you can charge a fee of $1000 less an early payment discount of 20% instead of a $800 fee in the first place.

[rachel_peek]

Jay, collecting the final part after the wedding isn't the issue; giving them anything tangible before their final payment

seems to be where potential problems lie.

 

Normally, I'd say don't even send a preview DVD at all, and instead have them come in to preview it on your TV, at

which time you'd mark down their change requests and then collect final payment with a promise date for the final

product. However, I realize that may not be possible as you may not have suitable "studio" space to display your

work. (If you do have a studio space, I say do things this way. It's comes off as much more official and professional

and you could even raise your prices a little to accomodate the additional face time required with your clients.)

 

Alternatively, you can require final payment prior to providing the preview DVD. You can do the work, tell them the

preview is ready and as soon as final payment is received, you'll send them a preview disc.

 

If you do send someone a "preview disc", I suggest that any non-final disc is marked on both the outside of the disc

as well as in the actual video, say across the bottom of the screen and throughout the entire movie. Additionally,

include in your contract that the preview disc is your studio's property for the client's preview purpose only and is to

be returned to you within 2 weeks of receipt. This would help to eliminate someone's idea to keeping the preview disc

instead of following through on their part to get a final disc (one that you'd be proud to have them show around to

friends and family, AKA potential clients).

 

As for the money, I don't see why you should just "forget about it". Would you forget about $300 if you accidently

threw it in the garbage? NO. You'd go digging!

 

I suggest that you send your client a polite yet firm letter explaining that while you can appreciate that she might not

be in

a position to complete her contractual obligations at the moment, you do need to hear from her, otherwise you'll have

no choice but to continue collections efforts, such as using a collections agency or filing a claim in small claims

court.

 

And then stick to your "threat" by filing in small claims court. Filing fees are typically only around $50 and as long as

you have a contract and present yourself well, a judge will probably award you your claim. If it's worth the filing fee

and taking a week day off to be present in court, then you'll probably end up with $200-$250 instead of being out

$300 were you to let it go by giving your client a $300 gift. (That's quite an expensive wedding gift. Did anyone else at

their wedding give them a $300 gift???)

 

Just my two or three cents.

[annealmasy]

I would really recommend that you don't take a client to court over $300. I think that would just turn an annoying

situation into an ugly situation.

 

In my opinion, the problem with not being paid in advance doesn't really have anything to do with the final product itself. It's

the WORK you put into the final product. Those DVDs cost you, what, $3 to burn? Another $6 to ship? The $300 is NOT to

cover the cost of the delivered product; it's to pay you for the HOURS and hours of time you *already* put into MAKING them.

 

It MIGHT make sense to collect a small post-wedding balance on a product, such as an album, that has a final hard

cost. But to try to collect a balance for a service you have *already rendered* is like ordering the album and THEN trying

to be reimbursed. If you never get paid, you have lost money.

 

All of the videographers we work with expect payment in full by the wedding date. Their contract then clearly states how

long after that it will take for them to deliver the final video. Delivery time shouldn't be an issue for contention as long as

your clients know in advance how long they can expect to wait.

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

Just a thought to help.

 

My pricing includes the high resolution digital files on DVD's. What I do is have a meeting with the B&G after the wedding

when I collect final payment. I also will use this time to sell them on additional services for the images as well as various

albums, thank-you cards.

[rachel_peek]

If a client is at least communicating with you that she's unable to pay at the moment and you give her flexibility, then she's going to tell everyone she knows about how great and "flexible" you are to work with, which may get you referrals which would definitely be worth more than the $300 she'd owe you.

 

However, in your case, your client is in hiding. Which is one other reason why I think you should not be afraid to try to collect from her. She wont be a good referral base for you now anyway. The fact that she didn't pay you and is avoiding you is enough for her to never mention your name to anyone in a good light again.

 

What Anne said about making sure that you're compensated for the time and work involved in a project up front with the final payment just being icing on the cake is definitely true. Very good advice for when you're contracting future clients.

[john_h.1]

"I don't collect in full before the wedding because with the video editing it takes much more time. And if they pay if full before the Brides want there DVDs like a week after the wedding."

 

Other video producers are able to communicate the time frame involved with editing and still be paid in advance. Reconsider your approach to communicating to potential clients on these issues.

[john schroeder]

I would offer her a payment plan. In the contract describing the new terms of payment I would put in a paragraph about late fees. If she doesn't pay, you could take her first born or threaten to have the marriage annulled. (Humor) Or just call your brother. A stern letter explaining what will happen to the couples credit rating should be enough to get you paid.

[tim_ludwig2]

RIGHT NOW!!!! STOP!!!!

 

Quit pursuing this before you get hit with some sort of harassment claim or possibly worse; get a reputation

among her family and friends which is then spread to the community at large that you are a tremendous hard ass

who is causing huge stressful damage to a poor little brand new mother who is in dire financial and emotional

straights. You cannot win in the extremely important court of public opinion. No one will listen to your

explanations!!!!!!!! You are in danger of becoming the town's biggest Grinch whether you see it or not and

whether it is true or not!!!!!!

 

Those who suggest a payment plan are giving you your absolute best current option. It's a great lesson learned.

 

I learned the hard way about prepayment many years ago after a wedding in mid August, in the city park in 105

degree temps/ 93% humidity and high noon glaring sunshine. Four hours of shooting, followed by two days of

throwing up while recovering from mild heat stroke followed by a call two weeks later to the bride and groom to

set the appointment for them to come in and pick up the proofs and pay the wedding fees.

 

They had flown to Acapulco after the reception for the honeymoon, gotten into an absolute knock down drag out

fist fight on the plane ride down (way pre-9/11 security), and flew back same night to an immediate filing for

divorce and I never saw a damned cent!!!!

 

I went to the printer next day for new wedding agreements that specified half down on booking the selected

wedding package and the balance due two weeks before the wedding day plus payment in full of any additional

orders before those were sent to the lab.....that's PAYMENT IN FULL of ALL ORDERS no matter how large or small

before any orders (including the bride and groom's album) was sent off for processing. The bride and her family

effectively became my sales staff and collection agents when they took the proofs out the door and it worked

brilliantly.

 

By the way, proofs were due back in three weeks in order to take advantage of the 'free 11x14' premium portrait

of the wedding couple. After that, no free print! They got a free 16x20 if the orders exceeded $2000.00 and

were all paid in full on the date the orders were due back. That cost me what? $15.00 tops....very cheap

insurance on enforcing cash flow in a timely way and selling up!

 

The fine print on the new agreement was very specific, that there would be no refunds for cancellation or for any

other reason, but that all fees paid to that date (less a $250.00 cancellation fee), would be held in credit for

the bride and or her family to use for any other of my photographic services, including portraits, another

wedding date, frames, etc.) for a period of one year. (Of course I fudged on that when one bride's dad had a

stroke the morning of the wedding, but I'm taking about just a cancellation due to a falling out.)

 

This is a brutal "if romantic" business and you have to protect yourself. The florist, reception hall, church,

bakery, dress and tuxedo outlets, band, organist and caterers all protect themselves with prepayment. Why is it

that we photographers are always so stupidly trusting? Doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't be thoroughly nice

and gentlemanly about it, just make sure that the only people who get screwed are the ones enjoying the honeymoon.

 

When you've done the above, you gain everyone's respect and you are therefore in control (nicely) of the event as

you need it be. They have made a big investment in YOU, so they are much more prone to listen and respond.

 

So, you can relax and enjoy the wedding day with all of them and do your best work because....no

worries!!!!

 

For now, back off of this before YOU make it a real problem.

 

Turn it into a public relations plus by sending her a congratulations card about the new baby and offering her a

free portrait SESSION (only session, no free prints) for the new family to be scheduled only AFTER she has paid

this bill in full. Then, sell (prepaid) her and the parents on both sides, some nice wall sized enlargements

(maybe 16x20 or 20x24's of

these first family portraits and gain the future business from all of those families, their extended families and

all of

their friends who will now hear about what a great photographer and great guy you are because you "understood"

and actually made their bad situation into a dream situation.

 

Good luck and think like a marketer. You'll be fine.

[rachel_peek]

"This is a brutal "if romantic" business and you have to protect yourself. The florist, reception hall, church, bakery, dress and tuxedo outlets, band, organist and caterers all protect themselves with prepayment."

 

All of these businesses, and any other business, would try to collect on a past due amount owed by a client.

 

Jay, you're not "harrassing" a client by simply asking her for payment that she owes you and offering her payment options if she isn't able to settle up right then. And, if she continues to avoid you, you have the legal right to step up legal collection efforts.

[bruce_stenman1]

My clients get nothing until I have been paid for my work. That puts me on even footing with the other vendors on their list. You are the easiest person for the bride to not pay.

 

As she has the DVD there is nothing you can do other than contact her parents and see if they would like to help. You could take her to small claims court and even if you get a judgment against her you still have the problem of collecting.

 

Hard to say but I would walk away and think about what you should do in the future to prevent this from happening again.

[tim_ludwig2]

Rachel, you are absolutely right in concept and absolutely at risk in execution based on what Jay has said about the multiple contacts that he has made in trying to get this collected. Sending out invoices is one thing and certainly within anyone's rights. Making the multiple calls is another.

 

There are very many laws out there that regulate collection agencies and that allow for specific controls over how collection calls can be made and that allow for monetary damages when those regulations are exceeded. I admit that I don't know if those same laws apply to a small business or only to the big agencies, but I'd err on the side of caution when you have options and I think that Jay has much better options.

 

Unless you have not paid attention to how inventive attorneys can be in representing people who are in the wrong and turning that back on the one who is in the right and making the innocent party into the villain, I think you should consider this.

 

I'll even put myself at risk by making a sexist remark. The young and seemingly innocent woman can and often does play the victim in the court of public sympathy in order to take advantage of the system and the individual.

 

Obviously that is not a blanket condemnation of all women or of even more than a handful. It IS a blanket condemnation of attorney's who latch onto the guilty few and turn them into a cause by accusing the poor business owner who is just trying to earn his or her living. There are vastly too many lawyers out there. They also have to support their families and there are way too few legitimate cases to go around. Some will go to any lengths with no morality to slaughter the poor person who is just wanting their hard earned money so they (the lawyer) can gain a winning reputation and get more greedy clients. That's the way their 'system' works. (Sounds like I've experienced this, but no I haven't. However I keep my eyes open and I've seen this become a force in how businesses have to be cautious.)

 

I am absolutely not accusing this young woman of that sort of mentality.

 

I am only suggesting to Jay that he needs to avoid the perception and possibility and to take control of this situation in a positive way.

 

The huge waste of time, energy and justified anger that he has right now is taking control of a lot of his thinking and MIGHT backfire. At the least, it is taking him away from his normal business goals and that costs anyone far more than a three hundred dollar account, painful as losing that money may be.

 

What I am hoping he will see is the by creating an incentive for this bride of wanting the family portrait badly enough to get this bill paid before Jay will set the session date (babies grow up very, very fast), he will likely get this bill paid quickly, earn a good income off of the sales of prints from the portraits, and most important, create friends and long term allies instead of a confrontation that can't be a winning situation even if he would get a judgment for the money.

 

One of the popular catch phrases now-a-days is "Perception is reality."

 

A wise person will want to shoot for a perception that they are not only a good businessman, but a positive one and a force for good business relations in their community, especially in a business that so relies on word of mouth and public good will.

[catherinevankempen]

Listen to Tim !!!!!!!!!!

[rig_galvez]

Hello folks, good ones and bad ones.

 

I love it when some one says "an expensive tuition", and they are right. I've been stiffed before and it is not worth the bad reputation over three hundred bucks, let it go/

[alfarabi]

I agree with Tim. You should turn this into a PR victory. Go out of the way to do what Tim has suggested and I am confident instead of being seen as a bully, you will be seen as someone nice to work with. BUT make sure you protect yourself with some of the suggestions already given above for future work.