Regreting my XSi

[richard_lyman]

I recently upgraded from an Olympus E-500 to a Rebel XSi. I think I made a big mistake. Under almost every

condition I shoot under the E-500 seems to take sharper pictures and get better exposures. I mostly shoot really

wide landscapes and want edge to edge sharpness with a lot Depth of field. I mistakenly thought the Canon's 12mp

vs. the Oly's 8 mp's. would make a big difference. I am talking about the kit lenses with both cameras. The E-500

is a 14-45mm and the Canon the 18-55mm IS. The 18-55 just doesn't seem as sharp at any f-stop or focal length,

especially at infinity and around the edges where it is noticeably soft. Yes the IS is on, yes I use a tripod

when shutter speed is below 1/60 Yes I turn IS off when it's on a tripod. I

could chalk it up to a cheap lens, but

the 14-55 is an even cheaper lens! Furthermore the Canon seems to blow out highlights very easily and really

struggles with high contrast exposures. If the sky is in the scene it's washed out and the foreground is very

underexposed or vise-versa. I've tried all the metering modes, AE lock, bracketing different combos of f-stop and

shutter speed and finally resorted to a GND filter which seemed to help the problem. I realize this is an issue

with any DSLR, but Olympus seemed to handle it way better. Furthermore I find the preset modes absolutely

useless, you can't alter any parameters! Luckily I don't use them much anyway. Not to mention the Olympus seems

better constructed has an easier to use menu with a lot more options. Photography is just a hobby for me but a

very passionate one that I invest a lot of time and money into. When doing research I thought the Canon's larger

sensor, extra megapixels, live view capability, larger LCD and larger selection of higher quality lenses would be

a better choice for me to grow into as I improve and grow as a photographer. I had some extra money and I wanted

to spend on a better camera having had the Olympus for a few years. I was always drooling over the Canons and

Nikons at the camera store and figured it might not be the wisest investment but at least I'll have a camera to

grow into that has an extensive line of accessories and third party support. So now I'm having serious doubts.

extra features not withstanding, as far as I can tell the E-500 takes just as good images and is easier to use.

Do I sell the XSi, and get an E-520? Is it just the 18-55mm or do I invest another $1000 bucks on a high end

lens? Do I upgrade even further and get a 40D? If I did that then I'd probably still need a better lens than the

18-55. I'm probably all wet but seemingly one has to spend $2300 on Canon products to get the same image quality

as $900 of Olympus products. I really want to believe my Canon is better, but my eyes tell me it's not, please

convince me why I should stay with Canon!

I don't have any photos that would serve as a reliable test as they are all different f-stops and focal

lengths. All this is just a general observation from reviewing hundreds of photos, taken with both cameras.

Hopefully I'm just imagining this.

[eric_glass]

I have the older Drebel, and I can honestly say that the kit lens is pretty bad. Throw a Sigma 30mm 1.4 on it and it will shine! It is a modest investment that will make your jaw drop. However, I should not have to convince you of this, if you like the Oly... get another Oly! Borrow some lenses, (better quality ones!) and then make a decision. Buying a 40d with the same lens will only further your frustration. You really do need to spend some cash on a few lenses. Get a prime, and go from there.

[wayne_campbell]

Your observations are well taken. I'm sure the next few posters will jump all over you for daring to criticize a

Canon. But I too have noticed that all pictures taken with the Canon (and I have used the Rebel, the 10D, and the

20D) appear soft and need post processing sharpening to look good. They also do blow out highlights. On the other

hand the colors are very pleasing and flesh tones are beautiful. Maybe the Olympus sharpens all this stuff up in

the camera before you see it?

[wayne_campbell]

Another thought. You might try a Pentax. Or a Nikon. They come right out the camera very sharp. I don't think

it's totally the Canon lens (the new 18-55mm IS actually has garnered some very good reviews) I believe it is

something inherent in the processor.

[beauh44]

Hi Richard, Just a few thoughts,<P>

 

<I> I mostly shoot really wide landscapes and want edge to edge sharpness with a lot Depth of field. I mistakenly

thought the Canon's 12mp vs. the Oly's 8 mp's. would make a big difference.</i><P>

 

Resolution will have no effect on sharpness. Sensor size can have an effect on DOF with a given lens though. (And

while I'm a Canon user, I think Oly makes fine cameras and lenses) Anyway...<P>

 

If you're comparing out-of-camera jpegs, well, in many ways you're really comparing Olympus's interpretation of the RAW

data versus Canon's since jpegs are processed in-camera and those processing algorithms are proprietary to the

manufacturer. You might see if you like your RAW files better.<P>

 

I personally wouldn't judge an entire company's lens line on the basis of a kit lens either. I suspect Oly may have - or

may have had - a clunker or two themselves.<P>

 

About the softness: It may be helpful if you could post images because it's possible there's a problem with either your

Canon lens or body. Stuff happens - UPS could've kicked your box out of the back of a truck somewhere and

something's out of alignment. I've only had to use Canon's service a few times and each time their NJ service center

was excellent when needed. Anyway, take 5 minutes to shoot a well-lit newspaper taped flat against a wall, using a

tripod, and trying several apertures and focal lengths.<P>

 

Another thing to consider: It's quite possible that Olympus simply applies more aggressive sharpening to its jpegs than

Canon does.<P>

 

One reason - maybe - to stay with Canon isn't the individual camera or lens but the entire system offered. Perhaps you'd

like to do some bird photography some day for example. Does Olympus offer the same kinds of products (really long

lenses) as Canon in that area? (I don't know - maybe they do!)<P>

 

Finally, if indeed the Oly is a better camera for you, then there's nothing wrong with that. I suspect you could get most of

your money back for the Canon on Ebay - although I certainly hope you sort out the problem and end up keeping it. Good

luck!

[fred_c1]

What Picture Style did you use? What are the saturation/contrast/etc settings? Have you tried shooting RAW and

post-process?

 

No point in changing cameras if you don't even bother to find out what they are really doing.

 

BTW, is the Enter/Return key broken on your computer?

[jim_larson1]

Pfft.

 

I have had the 10D since the day it was introduced, have compared over 1000 images from the 40D and XTi in some depth, and have recently spend 2 hours gear fondling a friends XSi.

 

First: Canon quality / features on the lower end at this point is a function of the date released, not the money spent. The XSi seems to have almost all the useful features of the 40D. The 40D and XTi seem VERY similar in image quality.

 

Second: Live view is a waste of time as a practical matter. I cannot fathom when I would use it. The shutter lag and lack of AF is RIDICULOUS.

 

Third: I have worked with Canon "styles" or "shooting modes" since I bought a EOS 630 in 1989; and I STILL don't understand how they work. I stick with Av and M. If Super lazy: P.

 

The XSi should be able to take AWESOME pictures. If you can't get reasonably sharp images at F8 on a tripod. . . . there is probably something fundamentally wrong and you should post some samples. If your highlights are blowing out: The XSi can EASILY tell you this, and you should dial in a stop of Exposure Compensation. If this makes the shadows too dark. . .then you simply asking the impossible of a dSLR.

 

This is not a knock on Olympus. I would expect that camera to take AWESOME pictures as well. Post samples of those as well. :)

[peter_mckone]

Who sold you the camera? If you show him your soft images, would he be willing to swap your camera for one that works better? As you know, lots of people do get sharp pictures from Canon cameras, even with the kit lens, and even without sharpening in PhotoShop. Otherwise, we would all switch vendors. I admit that when I photograph a scene with both sunlight and shadows, I have to set exposure compensation to -2/3. That's with a 350D. All modern cameras, including Olympus, are capable of taking great pictures. It sounds like you got a lemon.

[PuppyDigs]

Now that was a long paragraph. I got lost a couple times trying to move my eyes to the next line. But I think you said the

Rebel sucks and your Oly is great.

 

Now I have no doubt the Oly is a good camera. However it's a different camera than the Rebel and, like people, each camera

has unique strengths and weaknesses. It's up to the operator to learn those strengths and weaknesses in order to make the

best of his gear. I'm sure if I ran your Oly like it was a Nikon or a Canon I'd be disappointed with IQ. On the other hand, I know

without a doubt you can get great results with the XSi once you learn its operational and post-processing idiosyncrasies.

However that's up to you. If you run it like a point 'n shoot you should expect point 'n shoot results.

 

First, shoot RAW, pay attention to the histogram (keep to right but don't clip) and process in DPP. Play with the Picture

Styles and parameters in DPP until you find a pleasing look. Once you see a pattern of settings that work most of the time,

save as a recipe. If you set up similar settings in-camera you can save a lot of mouse clicks in post-processing. And, to rule

out technique, use a tripod and cable release (disable IS) for some stopped down sweeping landscapes. Remember, expose

RAW files to the right but don't clip.

[PuppyDigs]

"Second: Live view is a waste of time as a practical matter. I cannot fathom when I would use it. The shutter lag and lack

of AF is RIDICULOUS."

 

Personally I don't use LV much. But I did try a bunch of times and by gum it works pretty darn well. In fact, AF works great

on my 40D in LV mode. Once you activate AF in the menus, use the AF-on button to focus. Shutter release is almost

instant since AF isn't tied to it.

[g dan mitchell]

Could we see a sample? It may be that we can help you analyze and perhaps improve the situation. The camera and lens

combination you have should perform reasonably well. Either something is out of adjustment or there is a technique issue

to take a look at.

 

Dan

[steve torelli]

It sounds like you know how to use your Oly and you don't know how to use the Canon. AFA what you should do from

here, how can anyone but you answer that? If you were happy with your Oly, why did you get rid of it? Thousands

of people use the same Xsi without problems, it's highly unlikely that you have a "bad" camera. It's very likely

you haven't had it very long and haven't figured out how Canon does things yet. Over and over you talk about how

the camera doesn't do this and it doesn't do that, it doesn't do anything you don't tell it to do. You're making

the standard mistake of thinking the camera should take the pictures for you.

 

It seems like the "My camera doesn't take good pictures" whine is becoming more and more common @ Pnet as more

people trade their P&S in for a DSLR, and think they should have this photography thing all figured out in a

couple of days and then get frustrated and post about it here where there's no shortage of well intentioned

people willing to take their hand and go "there, there".

 

Posts like this don't ask questions so much as seek validation. How can anybody else see through your eyes?

OK, here's my advice. If your that unhappy, sell the Canon stuff and go back to what you know. Because obviously,

Olympic cameras and lenses take better pictures. Good luck.

[steve torelli]

If you want to sell used camera gear, the best place to do it is at the Fred Miranda Buy and Sell forum or the Classifieds here at Pnet.

[dennisgg]

I wonder if you have a bad specimen (lens or body), Popular Photo just did a review and it was glowing on the resolution, noise, etc. With lens reviews the IS kit lens scores well also. I would think unless you are doing a slow shutter speed, I would keep the IS turned off. What is the sharpness set to in the camera? What are the shutter speeds and apertures you are using?

 

 

 

Dennis

[Brad_]

<a href= "http://pages.sbcglobal.net/b-evans/Images29/PrideWeb/">Some San Francisco snaps</a> I took yesterday with

my new XSi. I have no regrets.

[john_g10]

Richard, just like Dan has mentioned, it's better to post some samples. Please ignore rude comments.

[richard_lyman]

Sorry about the run on paragraphs, I can't seem to disable them! I swear I'm using the enter/ return key.

Tried the plaint text-HTML box to no avail. I

appreciate everyones input. Just for the record, I do shoot in RAW and use Photoshop

elements 6.0 for PP, I just seem to have to do a lot more of it. I don't think it's a faulty lens, it's not out

of focus soft, it's just not as sharp (to my eyes) as the Oly's 14-45mm.

I usually shoot in Av or M. Haven't found much use for the other modes. As far as picture style either Vivid or

Monochrome. I haven't messed with the in-camera contrast or sharpness as I usually do that in PP, good idea

though. I check the histograms and have them set to come up on the display. I can usually manage the clipping

eventually, the GND filter really helps, but it's a hell of a lot of fussing around that I never used to have to

do. I swear this camera is very sensitive to highlights. I have gotten good results, it just takes forever, and

I'm used to getting it close without a lot of messing around in menus.

I'm not saying the E-500 is perfect either, the view finder is tiny, the AF hunts around and sometimes can't

lock at all in low light and the manual focus is terrible on the 14-45mm kit. The noise is also pretty bad at

higher ISO and long exposures. So you win some you lose some. Perhaps I had unrealistic expectations because it

said Canon. I can manage the clipping, I'll try the suggestions and look into a better lens. Thanks for your

input everyone.<div></div>

[john_g10]

That's very out of focus pic. You have enough shutter speed there but don't know if you had a stable shooting position though.

[mwr]

The XSi seems to apply noise reduction to in-camera JPGs, even at low ISO. Shoot RAW and convert using DPP which

came with your camera. You'll notice the difference in fine detail. But even those need some extra sharpening.

That's not a complaint; I like the low-sharpening approach so I can add that as desired later. Here's a shot from

my XSi and kit 18-55mm IS lens at 55mm (its "least sharp" focal length). First one is full frame reduced in size,

second is a 100%-size crop.

 

http://ruthvenphotos.com/files/IMG_0051_ls_1000w.jpg

---

http://ruthvenphotos.com/files/IMG_0051_ls_crop.jpg

[JDMvW]

1) In order to separate paragraphs on Photo.net you have to have two (2) carriage returns in between. Don't ask why, it's just that way. Sometimes you just have to learn how to use tools, you know.

 

2) I'm sure that the latest Canon product is just inferior to your older Olympus. It's funny that no one else noticed this, but you should get rid of your new XSi and get a new Olympus pronto. Perhaps then you will be pleased.

[mwr]

That photo you posted above is in no way what you should be getting from your XSi and kit lens. See the links in my post above.

[walfredo_cirne]

Hi Richard,

 

From the photo you posted, I can only conclude that you have a defective sample. Results are to be *much* better.

 

[]s

Walfredo

[zafar1]

Richard

 

Please post some example images. You may get better feedback that way.

 

Zafar

[zafar1]

sorry. there was long delay between submitting and confirming the response

[anthony johns]

yeah something's wrong somewhere with your system for sure. must be a lemon.