What does a version IV, 35 Summicron look like?

[chris_raney1]

Having been convinced that the 4th version of the 35mm Summicron should be my

first lens, I'm finding the different appearances of the various Summicrons

confusing to me. One f2 might have a wide objective lens while another is deeply

recessed in the barrel. Short of knowing the serial number of the lens, what are

the identifying characteristics of the 4th version?

[joop]

Hi Chris,

Have a look at this site; they are usually precise in the description of their lenses:

 

http://www.schouten-select.com/products.asp?gid=9&Leica+M+Mount+Lenses

[zweeko]

there is one on that site at the moment: http://www.schouten-select.com/products.asp?gid=90&aid=1239&Leica+35mm+f2+Summicron

+Black+4th+Version+Wetzlar

 

also, try this: http://www.summilux.net/m_system/objectifs/SummicronM35.html

 

seems the main difference on the fourth version - externally - is the extra grip on the aperture ring [so it appears almost to have a cut-out].

 

happy hunting!

[ronald_moravec1]

It is the only one of the first four that uses a rectangular hood and there are notches in the shade clamping grove to orient the shade properly. All the others have a round ring grove. The notches are at 12:00 and 6:00.

 

Mine has a focus tab that is convex rather than concave like every other Leica lens.

[john_gleason1]

Per S. Gandy at Cameraquest.com:

 

"Fourth version 1980 to 1998. Sadly discontinued with intro of 35/2 ASPH lens. black and chrome E39 filters. Recognizable by aperture control ring's oval shape. The portion with F/stops is smaller and of a smaller diameter. The gripping portion of the aperture control ring has a larger diameter with serrations. This set up is VERY easy to use. Chrome versions are handsome, but significantly heavier than the black. Earlier lenses have "LEITZ LENS MADE IN CANADA" on filter ring while serial number is on the BACK edge of the aperture control ring. Later variation has "LEICA" on filter ring along with the serial number. "

 

 

http://www.cameraquest.com/mlenses.htm

[ronald_moravec1]

http://www.kevincameras.com/

 

Go to Leica M lenses-page 13- upper right. Click the image for details.

 

This one has a concave tab unlike mine but you can easily see the upper notch in one view.

 

Try to get one with the proper shade, than put it on and leave it on. People break them.

 

They take regular 39mm flters like all M lenses except those for the CL which are odd pitch 39mm filters

[vic_.]

Before you get a 4th version, note that (a) the lens has a history of falling apart in people's hands. It is not a well made lens, as glue has been used to bind certain parts, and (b) you're overpaying for the "King of Bokeh" status that this lens has been given by some.

 

You might be better off getting the 2nd version of the lens, at a much more reasonable cost.

[john_gleason1]

"They take regular 39mm flters like all M lenses except those for the CL which are odd pitch 39mm filters"

 

<p>

Well, not <i>all</i> M lenses. Just many of them.

[chris_raney1]

The 4th version has a bad habit of falling apart in people's hands? How can that be true, and they still maintain the reputation for being such a desirable lens? That's a question to you, Vic.

 

But am I just blowing smoke here? Since the ASPH version can often be had for a thousand less than retail, and spending $1500 is not impossible for me, should I simply quit nickeling and diming and purchase the newest version of the Cron 35?

[john da]

The 4th version 35mm Summicron is one of 2 lens I purchased upon my entry into the Leica M world in the 80's. The

other lens was the 90mm Summicron along with a M4-P body. All as a package, and all brand new at the time. The

package was a wonderful combination, as I didn't feel the need to own any other lens for quite some time.

 

Over time I upgraded the M4-P and 90mm, but the 4th 35mm Cron has stayed with me. It is just a wonderful lens and

produces a look that I really like and enjoy. The boken is amazing... while the lens is extremely sharp. The lens did

develope a little looseness over time, but never came apart in my hands; nor did I ever see any image problems. A

couple of years ago I sent it to Sherry Krauter of Golden Touch and she sent it back to me in virtually new condition at a

mominal cost.

 

A few years ago I also purchased a 35mm Summilux ASPH, which I also enjoy when I feel the need for a little more

speed. But... they are "entirely different animals (at least to me)" and produce quite different looking images. The only

other M lens I have in my arsenal that I think gives a similar look and feel of the 4th version 35 Cron is my 4th version

50mm Summicron which also has the concave focusing tab and detachable lens hood. Both are Leitz Canadian vintage

models.

 

So, long story short, I really don't think you'll be disappointed if you pick up a 35mm 4th version Summicron in good

condition. If it happens to feel a little loose, you can always send it to Sherry. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[vic_.]

Chris, I can put you in touch with someone who had this lens fall apart in his hands. Then it costs money to have it put back together again. As I mentioned, they used glue, and not screws, for joining some parts. I know of at least two people who have experienced this phenomenon. I'm not trying to put you off, but there is more myth to substance about the bokeh properties of this lens. The Asph lens outclasses this lens by a mile. If you like the older look, the 2nd version is a bargain, as "king" chasers have priced the 4th version high, and people like the 8-element Summicron as well. There is a lot of irrational behaviour going on with some lenses. Try the Voigtlander, it's also a good performer, at a fraction of the price.

 

http://www.cameraquest.com/voigtlenchart.htm

 

In the end it all depends upon your budget and your desires.

[chris_raney1]

I've decided that you've helped me decide, John. I've taxed the patience of your colleagues for two weeks to help me make up my mind on a lens. So now that I know the 4th version Summicron, the classic Leica-look lens is for me, I just might be in the market for a 90mm as well. Like you twenty years ago this is my first foray into Leica. And since I'm only photographing people these days, and everything is hand-held, which 90 would you suggest?

[mpo]

I own, use and love a 35 Summicron IV. My only other 35 Leica is a Lux Asph, totally different, very sharp and IMHO, inferior bokeh.

 

As other members have said before (in other threads), the Cron IV has not "glued" parts but uses some kind of chemical to fix the threads instead of set screws. As this lens uses a square hood -that does not rotate- some users with bad habits use the hood as a "handle" when mounting or removing the lens from the camera. In that case that, eventually, loosens the front part of the lens.

 

Good choice Chris, you won't be disappointed.

 

BTW, last batches of this lens were made in Wetzlar instead of Midland. They are exactly the same lens and quality, but germans tend to be more expensive.

[richard_meyers]

Just two little tips regarding the hood for the lens.

First, if the lens has been disassembled/reassembled

incorrectly, the orientation ridges at 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock will

be off and the hood will be tilted slightly. This can be frustrating

to some. Second, there is no Leica cap to go on the front of the

hood while mounted. The cap from the newer 35 hood fits but

is a little loose and prone to falling off.

[john da]

Chris,

 

I started out with the 90mm Summicron which started production in 1980 (I believe), which looks very similar to the

current 90 Summicron ASPH; both have a collapsible lens hood. Keep in mind that both of these 90mm lens are fairly

heavy and physically "much larger" than the 35mm Summicron 4th version, or any other Summicron for that matter.

Which makes the 90 sometimes feel very unwieldy. Although, as mentioned earlier, the 35 and 90 were all I used for

quite sometime; and all I felt I needed. It made for a nice small package to carry around and photograph virtually any

subject matter without lugging tons of additional lens. Be forewarned though, Leica lens can be addictive.

 

I did finally upgrade to the 90 Summicron ASPH because I wanted "more sharpness and contrast" at the larger

apertures. Which it does deliver. But, I can't remember ever really being disappointed with the original 90, although I

think it may have vignetted a bit. You might want to try and find a dealer that has both in stock and see if they'll allow

you to shoot a few frames with both so you can compare the difference. You may not want the extra

sharpeness/contrast of the ASHP, or higher price.

 

I my case, even though I love the look from my 35 and 50mm 4th version Summicrons the sharpness of the 90mm

Summicron ASPH gives me more of what I want from that focal length.

 

You might also seek out info and opinions regarding the 90mm Elmarit-M 2.8 which also has a retractable lens shade.

And is smaller and lighter than the Summicrons.

[bill_schneider1]

I have the IV Summicron 35mm lens, and have had the front loosen in use. I fixed it myself by taking the lens

mount off, and finding the threaded retaining ring that holds it together. It takes a spanner, but in the field I've

done just fine with nothing more than a set of jeweler's screwdrivers while sitting on a hotel bed.

 

The retaining rings of my IV 35mm lens, and those of a couple friends who also had this lens loosen have all

been threaded. Any Leica tech worth his or her salt can fix this problem easily, and will probably add a drop of

nail polish to the threaded ring to prevent it from loosening until the next CLA.

 

I will have to put up a web page someday with illustrated instructions for fixing this problem. It's a topic that

arises here periodically.

[Robin Smith]

I have the current Summicron ASPH 35mm and its a superb lens, perhaps it does not quite have the bokeh of the ver IV, but it is evenly sharper across the field at wider apertures, but either will do you very well. I keep looking for a reason to upgrade my late 90mm Summicron to the 90mm APO, but quite honestly it is such a good lens I feel it would be a waste of money and it really does have beautiful bokeh (much more important for a tele lens of course) and I suspect is superior in this regard to the latest APO version

 

"Cron IV has not "glued" parts but uses some kind of chemical to fix the threads instead of set screws."

 

Hmm... "some kind of chemical to fix threads" is surely a good description of...glue!

[teitur_ardal_rosengren]

I have one from 93, made in germany, 35mm. Its a vary nice lens.

Very compact and easy to use.