simus Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Hi, I have seen a summicron 50 with some scratches on the lens. How much will those scratches affect the result? How much could be a fair price? thanks for looking / helping, Antonio<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_bud Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Linear defects on a lens do not result in linear defects in photographs. Each portion of the lens is involved in imaging on the film. What will happen is the ability to image detail will degrade and contrast could be affected if the number of surface defects is sufficient. Coatings were softer in the past and after many years of use if a UVa filter was not used, scratches result. There are many pristine examples of these lenses available, you might have to pay a little more but then your question is moot.-I never purchase scratched lenses. Dick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohir_ali Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Those won't affect the photo, but will affect resale, best to avoid unless you get it for a good price and you never intend to sell it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenny_jaques Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 The effects from scuffed coating and scratches in the glass will be kept to a minimum if the lens is fitted with the best possible shade. The scratches in particular will reduce contrast significantly if able to gather light from the widest angle of view. Outdoors in daylight this will be most noticable. My 5cm Summicron, an early rigid, has several scuff marks in the coating, but still remains one of the best performing optics I've ever owned. Outdoors, I always use it shaded. I have a new Leica UV filter which remains on the lens unless using a yellow/green or other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Probably not anything you will notice unless sun is hitting the front. But it is like buying a car with a dented fender, still runs but the next guy will try to knock down the price if you sell it. So don`t pay a lot and use the same reasoning with your seller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simus Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 Thank you for your help. the price is around 180 US $, do you think to be fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denis_pleic Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Those big scratches are less of a problem than those "cleaning marks" in the center. The lens will be usable indoors, without strong light sources in the frame, but for well-lit scenes and outdoors, forget it... Had one like that, and it bothered me enough to have it recoated. Luckily, that took care of the "cleaning marks", and the lens now performs as new (much improved contrast). However, it was in a better shape than this one :( The best way to know is to take some test shots. My guess is the contrast will be significantly reduced, bordering on unusable - particularly when shot outdoors in bright light. Shade will help, but not as much as one would wish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohir_ali Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 $180 for a late Summicron?! Grab it. How much does JVSt charge for a recoat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canfred Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 This lens seems to have unusual marking and Summicron numbers for SM started with 920 000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mohir_ali Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 The last three numbers of the serial number have been 'erased', which is normal pratice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simus Posted June 15, 2008 Author Share Posted June 15, 2008 This is an old 1968 summicron. Serial number on the photo should have been erased. Antonio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canfred Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 This makes all the difference if it is the M version seven element lens its certainly worth the price. I would still have the lens recoated even if it performs well as it is. Manfred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaglow Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Just to be a contrarian, why would you want to settle on a substandard lens for your Leica? And who does lens coating and what kind of money do they charge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astral Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 In the UK, Malcolm Taylor undertakes re-coating and has recently taken delivery of a consignment of replacement front elements for the 50/2 rigid (specially made) which he will fit as part of a full overhaul. Neither service is cheap - Malcolm Taylor, Upper Lye Fm , Aymestrey, Leominster, HR6 9SZ, United Kingdom (Tel +44 (0) 1952 274959. AC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
35mmdelux Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 re-coat/cla $300 +/- plus $180 = $480 (US) total lens cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_levine Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 Any time there is any deformation of the lens surface that alters or scatters light , in theory photos will be affected. Will it be noticeable or objectionable? This is purely subjective. Most of the time, at least with SLR lenses. In my experience, the image degradation is imperceptible with the human eye. In fact I have many bargain lenses with minor marks that work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david j.lee Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 i bet those come out with some steel wool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 In most cases a few scratches is what one WANTS in a Leica item purchase; since most folks think it radically drops performance; and in reality its in the noise of the measurement. <BR><BR>An analogy is a Leica toilet plunger; shovel, hammer, lens is worthless with a scratch or two; thus as a shooter one can buy a better value.<BR><BR> Alot of scratches drop the contrast a tad; a lens hood can help with stray light. In theory if one has a dinky scratch on a Leica lens it like glueing a BB on a dump truck and worry about the gas mileage drop.<BR><BR> Since many folks lack a sense of scale these little things are worried about. A decent scratch drops the selling price radically more than the drop in performance; like there is this giant lever arm to the moon. Thus if a lens had a 1/2 percent drop in performance; a Leica chap often will say its garbage and the lens sells for 1/2 the price. Its like cherry picking hammers, garbage cans, shovels at Home Depot to find one with nil nicks; since its performance has to be better.<BR><BR> The real odd thing is that the recoat gambit is risky; you might get a better looking lens that messes up the factory precision; one that has now a focus error. A slight tilt; an element stresses; a shim mixed up can totally swamp and ruin a fine lens.<BR><BR>Obsessive worry about little things and magnifying the "ruining factor" is common when folks lack a sense of scale; or dont do any real testing on their own. Its abit bizzare when a lens thats probably an excellent one gets rebuilt for no real practical reason but to "detail it"; and then possibly reuin the darn thing; and pay twice the selling price for the flub. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted June 15, 2008 Share Posted June 15, 2008 With a lens that has some scratches; or a simple car windshield it matters with the "performane drop" on the lighting conditions. Maybe an old beater car and drive to work not into the sun; morning or evening; the "scratched windshield" might not be worth replacing. Reverse the route and one has less contrast and more fatigue; thus a new job or windshield might be planned. With lenses a studio shot under controlled conditions has little flare; thus the performance drop is in the noise. One might be shooting outdoors under high flare conditions and the little scratch might drop the contrast a tad; but then it might not be such a bad thing since the ligthting ratio is too high anyway. A 180 buck summicron seams like a total steal; eevn with a few minor scratches; almost a dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david_ralph1 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 There is an old trick for a lens scratch which may help you if you get this lens. Black India ink in the scratches will reduce the flare caused by the scratch reflections and refractions within the scratch, and the ink filled scratch will itself be invisible in the image. I suppose one question for you is just how many scratches does that lens have? There is some point at which this exercise must be abandoned when there are just too many scratches to black out. If you buy it, you will have to let us know how it turns out in use. Dave Ralph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozmen Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 To be honest, nobody will buy this lens, but for a fair price you can change your lens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivart_hok Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 i'll buy the lens for 180 usd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simus Posted June 16, 2008 Author Share Posted June 16, 2008 Thank you for your help, and the nice talk. above all I'll explain the reason I'd like to buy it. I own a some old pieces like from the '50s like the collapsible elmars 50 and 90 and some other, all in very good conditions, all with max aperture starting from 2.8. So I would have liked to buy a faster lens withouth need to hadle it with too much care. So my choise has follen on a summicron or a summilux. I saw this one, and here I am. I think I'll buy it and I'll post some photos as soon as it arrives. Ciao, Antonio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Smith Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I agree with Kelly, 100%. There are more scratches on this lens than I might be altogether happy with, but frankly I doubt you will actually notice. The only thing I would say is that the 50mm Summicron is surely the most common Leica lens available, so you can always look out for another and find it pretty soon. Otherwise get a good deal and you have a great shooter. Robin Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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