Getting subtle "Ed Weston" shadows in digital

[alexander_strbac]

Hi everybody!

 

I browsed through almost all of the subforums and just couldn't find a better

one to post this so let me try here. Today I was looking at some Ed Weston

photos, fabulous stuff really, and two of them caught my eye - Nautilus shell

and a Pepper No. "something". So, I thought, let me give it a shot with my 5D

:-) to see if I can get the Polaroid type 55 tonality

 

The results are, well...not that good. The background is pure black, the pepper

is somewhat "plastic".... :-(. Maybe you canhelp me out with a few questions:

 

1. Why does it look plastic? I places the light yellow pepper on the dark blue

cloth, beneath the window (cloudy, rainy day), took 2 images - one toward

overexposure (but still no burned out highlights), second one a bit toward underex.

 

- the first one had to be lowered in levels almost half (the middle slider) the

second one was great, only bumped the white slider a bit

 

2. why cant I get the subtle nuances that Ed got? Is it because of the shells

surface vs. smooth pepper skin?

 

3. there is some osterization visible in the midtones, where did that come from?

I thought 5D had large enough resolution and chip so this wouldnt happen. I

simply converted the image to greyscale mode, adjusted the levels A BIT, resized

and sharpenned (radius 0.3, amount 90)

 

Another thing that interests me. He put this shell on an oil barrel and took a

picture. Did heknow that the background wouldnt be pure black (there is

something in the shadows) or not? What is the "thought" process when doing an

image like that one? I'm asking simply because Id like to learn...

 

Cheers all and many blessings!

Alex<div></div>

[alexander_strbac]

and here is Westons shell... (let me see if I can put it inline with the post)<div></div>

[dennis_oconnor4]

Well, there are a whole host of issues here...

1st is those shots were made on orthochromatic film (likely)..

Second, they are MF or LF cameras and the lens render images with a vastly different depth of field from a lens for 35mm (nominal) camera bodies...

And third, the digital sensor does not do subtle tonality differences as well as film does...

And lastly, "yes" he knew exactly what zone his background would fall on...

 

Now, go this this reference:

 

http://luminous-landscape.com/essays/back-testing.shtml

 

Skim down to where they have the scan from Velvia compared to the MF digital sensors... Look at the subtle tonality differences in the white areas of of the dollar bill compared to the digi sensors... And remember the image from the Velvia has been scanned so it is a second generation copy compared to the digi images, and even so still has more tonality... If you projected that Velvia image and looked at it you would see even further subtle tonalities that are completely lost...

 

Then remember that looking at these images on a computer screen at JPEG dpi, is like putting two layers of pantyhose in front of your glasses while you look at pictures at the museum...

 

denny

[ellis_vener_photography]

Are you shootign raw or compressed JPEG files to start with? If raw what are you using to process them with?

 

Weston also really knew lighting -- he was a very successful commercial and portrait photogrpaher before he became a full time non-commercial artist --and he was starting with a large diffused light, your photo looks like you are a much smaller less diffused lightsource.

[beauh44]

I'd second Ellis's point about the size - and probable proximity - of the light source,

especially. For soft light, in general, the larger and closer the source, the better. And

as he also mentioned, shooting high-bit RAW files will help... and your method of B&W

conversion can affect a lot too. You might also try a bracketed composite since you're

shooting a still-life. Lastly, lens choice can certainly come into play in order to get

anywhere near to what a MF camera image can do.

[barry_kenstler1]

Alex,

 

Perhaps I'm not as discerning as others, but I've found that one can produce quite subtle gradation in the deeper tones with digital capture, producing images with gradation quite similar to that which one could get via long-toe black and white films. First, if you are working with jpeg files produced in the camera, you are already at a disadvantage. The black point is likely set too high for the look you are seeking, resulting in areas of subtle shadow clipped to pure black. Also, to get the best results, use the lowest ISO setting, even with a Canon 5D will its larger chip and relatively low noise. Use a raw file converter and pull back the black point (shadow slider) to open up deep shadows. You can also make minor adjustments to the tone curve to flatten shadow contrast slightly. If using Adobe Photoshop, try converting to black and white via the channel mixer. This will allow you to adjust the relative contributions of each of the color channels (RGB) to better simulate the color sensitivity of a chosen black and white film. This approach will also allow you to change the relative tones of the pepper and blue background.

 

Good Luck!

[alexander_strbac]

Thank you all so very much!

 

What I believe I have done wrong is firstly, using JPEG. Secondly, My background is not as "good" as Eds. He shot his image somewhere outdoor probably, in a shed of a sort, or in some shadow... I have put this uniform background behind pepper.

 

Will try again and let you know if anything good comes out of it

 

Cheers!

[mrstubbs]

Pepper No. "something"?

 

Shame on you. Pepper #30

 

Top right of page: http://www.creativephotography.org/documents/press/2007/MAPPressReleasefinal.pdf<div></div>

[alexander_strbac]

Sorry Anthony ;-) I know I should have known that one, its really a classic. This work that you posted is awesome! Care to share the bits? Background, camera, film, postprocess... light? And lastly, what did you put it on?

 

Thank you, Im off to experiment some more ;-)

[mrstubbs]

Not much post work other than the bw conversion and a gamma reduction Alexander. It was taken on the dining room table(Tasmanian Oak..made by my father in-law) with a single canon flash held above left. The first time I used canon flash unit. 5D, 50mm, 1/125, 5.6. The background is the lounge and an open doorway...evening. It's dark ..because the light source is so close to the subject.

 

I think Ed Weston used daylight...and had his pepper inside a tube...the majority of the light travelling accross the front of the tube. If he had the equipment we have today...he may have done it differently.

 

I'm finding the quality of light captured has more to do with understanding the limits of the technology and the balance of light and dark, rather than the type of light used.

[wogears]

I believe EW's pepper #30 was in a funnel.

 

OP's light source is insufficiently diffuse. Try putting a large diffuser (a sheet of frost acetate will work) close to the subject.