need clarification on a BIG arguement between me and my husband (the photographer)

[bscphoto]

I am setting up my husband's first website to sell prints to his customers who hire him for a photoshoot. He does

regular shoots for hair stylists and such, pet photography, and weddings.

 

HE says that he should upload all of the files only partially touched (color enhanced, contrast, ect) and then as

they choose the files, he will make all of the change to them (like the porcelain skin, ect) when they purchase

them.

 

In my mind, that is TOTALLY backwards, especially when doing a wedding because other people are going to see

them. The bring and groom are likely to give their album password to everyone in their family for them to

purchase from the net. I would THINK youw would want your best work so people look at the images and say "this

one is beautiful, i want it"

 

Can someone PLEASE tell me how the re-touching process goes in the real world? Does the photographer just pick

the best of every picture/pose, retouch them and sellthe prints, or do they put ALL of them up just partially

touched and do the rest before they go to the printer>

 

I REALLY need somehelp with this.

[karen_lippowiths]

I only show hand-picked final edits (never all of the frames taken or unfinished works! I only shutter to think!). Of

course, if clients have specific requests (touch up something here, soften lines a bit more there), I'll make the additional

edits to the purchased proofs. In my opinion, more than anything else, the processing of the photo is where we as photographers

differentiate ourselves and define our styles. Consider going to a nice restaurant and asking for the raw

ingredients partially cooked and just thrown onto the plate for you to pick through. It's not how it works. The experience is in the final

piece and in its overall presentation. Photography is an image business, after all.

 

Your reasoning is spot on. The work itself is just as much a marketing vehicle as everything else. I never put up a

proof that I wouldn't want to buy myself and I know from my site meter that I get surges of traffic when I put up galleries -- all friends and

families. I'd side with you in this argument :)

 

- Karen Lippowiths

[a._j._jacobs]

I'd side with you on this as well. You only want people to see the best, and then they will be more likely to purchase the

prints...:)

[bscphoto]

I am glad to hear that I am not nutty for thinking so. He wasn't really thinking of putting every single image up lots of them buy only partially

touched. It just does not make sense in my mind

 

I would like to hear more peoples opinio on this as well

 

Karen, do you sell images online?

[Jerry_]

You may get a yes and a no answer to your question.

 

 

 

If you have 400 images from a wedding, and you expect a sane person to edit each and every one for a 'final' print before you post 'em on a web-site for ordering, you may never finish the project. Add in a few shoots of a cat-or-dog, along with some hair stylists' work.

 

 

 

 

One has to sleep and eat during 24 hours.....

[bscphoto]

well, he wouldn't have to do all the crazy editing with,for instance the pictures of the people sitting at the tables and lots of

the reception pictures. The fancy I we will be of the ceremony and the bride and groom those don't have to be done right

away. But would you personally put you images up at all if they weren't retiuched and try to sell them?

[mike dixon]

For decades before ordering over the web became common, people selected the images they wanted to order from inexpensive, machine-made proofs that had no retouching other than color correction and exposure adjustments. While I would make color and exposure adjustments (which can be done efficiently in batches) before generating images for display, I don't think it's practical to do more-extensive retouching to the majority of images.

[ellis_vener_photography]

After years of agreeing with your husband's position, I now think your position is the right one unless:

 

1.) You have a very knowledgeable client who under stands that what they are seeing is jsut a baselineto start from;

 

or

 

2.) The minimally worked on files are shown fairly small

 

You really do want to put your best foot forward to get people excited about your business.

[robert_k1]

As you noticed, there is no simple answer to your question. It depends on a few variables:

 

- how much time/effort does the photographer take to touch up each image?

 

- how many prints will he sell for EACH image?

 

I'm not a wedding photographer, but my work do include street/documentary/events. Let me share my own approach.

 

For my "winner" images which have the potential of many repeat sales (or which I personally like a lot), I can spend a

couple of days to retouch and correct an image for printing. Over time, I would retouch and recorrect the same image

from scratch. These are the ones that end up in my site, or galleries, etc.

 

For the "sample" or "give away" images which I e-mail to those in my images, I would do a quick retouch only. If they

should order prints, I would retouch them further.

 

And I have learned the following:

 

- Even the meticulously retouched images would lose much details/colors/tones when shown online as small jpegs.

 

- When the images are targetting the people in them, the trump card is that THEY are in them at the RIGHT time and

place. If they feel that they are well represented, or if the events/occasions are precious to them and cannot be

repeated, they will love them, even if the images have technical or aesthetic shortcomings.

 

BTW, did you ask your husband WHY he prefer his approach? A marriage counselor would definitely suggest that :-)

[ameet_savant]

I am not a professional photographer. However, I am a professional programmer. IMO your husband has a "show all" approach so the clients can choose what they want. It is clearly impractical to retouch all photos. Why don't you provide two "buckets":

 

1) Retouched photos- Shows the photographer's skill in "making" the photo to highlight the moment

2) As is photos (or slightly retouched)- To capture what the clients may see as a moment they would like to highlight.

 

Assuming everything will be password protected, the "as is" photos will not generate any bad publicity with future clients.

[alec_myers]

"- When the images are targetting the people in them, the trump card is that THEY are in them at the

RIGHT time and place. If they feel that they are well represented, or if the events/occasions are precious

to them and cannot be repeated, they will love them, even if the images have technical or aesthetic

shortcomings."

 

This is so true. People will often buy the lousiest pictures of themselves of their children, and don't care

or even notice one whit about retouching. It's kind of sad that the values we read into photos don't

parallel those of our customers but, that's business.

[bscphoto]

i did ask why :) and his reasoning is that he didnt want to do touch-ups on photos that might not be sold. It KINDA makes sense, but i figure the pictures of aunt ginny sitting at table #14 with her family does not need a load of touching up because of the reasoning mentioned above.

 

I think we are going to do two sites, one for the "package" photos that go to the bride the groom. The best pick of the litter. They will have their own url to use that will have those photos on them. Then the pictures to sell to the rest of the guests - like Aunt Ginny, will just be on the main store side.

 

I basically made a website where he can upload an image and sell prints or customers can immediately download a digital file - THIS is where the issue came from> He said, "they are going to be downloading the untouched digital file" and my reasoning was "well, they liked that file enough to be ok with paying for it, its not like they KNOW its untouched!"

 

anyways, i think we will reach some kind of compromise like a listed above.. two albums, one with the regular untouched, and one with the already edited.

 

If you are interested in seeing how the website is built and what EXACLTY i am talking about, you can see it here:

bscphoto.com/catalog

 

if you leave off the /catalog you can see the portfolio version of the page

[karen_lippowiths]

Hi Lindsay:

 

I only do in-person sales to the client. I post images online for 10 days after the sale for friends and family to view. :)

[brian york photography]

I think the amount of retouching done should also take into consideration the amount being paid. If you are

charging $1500 for a wedding you can't give them the world and they would probably love any good photos with

slight retouching. If you keep them at 350x600 pixels in size most of the retouching you would do wouldn't show

too much. Also these are wedding photographs and not magazine ads too much retouching and they will look fake.

Keep it real and with good lighting you shouldn't need to retouch much. <br><br>

 

On the other hand if you are charging $6k for a wedding or more then retouching the images would probably be

good. <br><br>

 

If you go with the lightly retouched photos then you can always put something on your site that says "UnRetouched

Photos" and viewers will get the idea. <br><br>

 

As a commercial photographer clients see un retouched photos of mine quite often because I don't retouch all the

selects just the ones they are actually going to use.<br><br>

[lpartain]

In our business we have two sections to display images. One is for "proofing" these are untouched and the client

understands that they are merely for them to pick out favorites and ones they want for the album. Then we go to town

touching up what was picked out preparing them for albums and for online sales. I think it actually does help the business

when they see the difference between just what comes off the camera and what I am able to do with it. There is a need for

clear communication with this approach however.

[eric merrill]

Lindsay:

 

If it helps, my wife and I have had similar discussions. Since she is always right, I have changed how I

present the pictures. :)

 

For weddings, I show original pictures with any necessary color and exposure correction. (Which is

what I've always done.)

 

For portraits, I show pictures with some retouching done. They are not necessarily ready to be printed,

but they are retouched enough so the subjects look their best.

 

 

Eric

[bscphoto]

thanks for all the answers guys.. i think that the compromise between only doing the partial touch for the really nice pictures, and almost no retouching (other than color and exposure) for the pictures that will probably be inpulse buys anyways..

 

seems like our website is coming along nicely.. hopefully the customers will find it easy to use.. we will find out this week. we did a dog fair and tooks LOADS Of pictures and handed out cards for people to come and see their dogs online and buy pictures..t he big test this weekend