Photographing a wedding as a guest - Advice needed

[jbeach]

I am not no where close to being a pro, and I was asked by my brother and new sisiter-in-law to bring my camera's and lenses to their wedding and take photos, and they also had a pro. wedding photographer,I was glad to even though I would recieve no money and would never charge for the shots either. They poised for the pro and when got his shots they all stood still for an extra minute and let me take my shots, plus I got to take candid photos of the guests and private moments with the B&G that we all think the pro would not have gotten, because all the people involved knew me and were relaxed, and allowed me to get "closer". Now I am not saying my shots were better than the pros, but I did take some great shots and some of the wedding party and guests and some of the behind-the-sences and of the B&G turned out much better in my opioion, and the pro, didn't mind a bit in fact I got some great pointers from him, learned quite a bit and decided I never want to be a wedding photgrapher either only as a favor to someone very near and dear.

[William Michael]

This has been a really interesting read for me: the exposing of various thoughts and proclivities.

 

Thank you for your kind response, Guy.

 

I would like to add a couple of personal thoughts / experiences which were stimulated by previous comments.

 

1. The `white lens` is actually an issue: it might be an issue to the Pro Photographer, it might not be: but it will be obvious to some, if not many, of the Guests, and it should be your responsibility to inform them, by action or voice that you are not the `paid one`.

 

I have this particular `issue` quite often: I have diverse sporting interests, and some at very high level competition.

 

I too, like Guy, have white lenses, and access to a 300 and 400 F2.8L, so as an `amateur` when I romp up with the same gear as the contracted fellow, I am aware he might smell a rat: it is irrelevant that I do not have a 1 series camera: it is the white lens, and the size (even the 70 to 200) which is noticed by the masses.

 

Now I have two advantages in my situation: one is I know some of some of these Sports Shooting guys, and the second is I am constantly there, at mostly all major meets nation wide, and, even if I am not known, I have behaved myself and not attempted to move into the press area, etc: also I buy some of their photos, and I give them a wave, take a photo of them and post it off to them as a gift, and go about my business taking the shots I want of a few, select athletes: so for me that repetition has given me a great working relationship: I am respected and known: therefore, I am not a threat.

 

However this is a one off for Guy, that and the initial actions and words (if any) will indeed set the scene. The fact that a 70 to 200 white lens is arriving is one of those actions: and that must be considered, IMO.

 

2. The withholding of your images (from the Bride and Groom) until arrangements have been finalized by the hired Professional resonates with me: if indeed the reason for going to this amount of effort is for a deeper understanding and improvement of your own skills, then that should be no problem. Nadine mentioned that such is polite: I add, it is also professional, and in such circumstances it is also professional behaviour, IMO that if any images you take are to be given to the B & G then they are to be given: NOT chosen by them.

 

There is a subtle differentiation: pedantic, but IMO, important. Again, taking a personal tack, I refer to my Niece`s Wedding, I mentioned earlier. I gave an autographed book of about (20) 6 x 4 finished prints to my Sister-in-law as a gift and a memento of her daughter`s Wedding. I had not seen the Pros work, and I gave it after about 4 weeks after the Wedding and that was two weeks after the family had chosen and received all the Products for which they had paid.

 

That action was not taking the moral high ground, it is just, what I believe to be correct behaviour, and in the long run also benefits me, as I am allowed to go about my business (of enjoying photography) unhindered.

 

Similarly I NEVER give (or sell) any of the sporting photos I take (in an amateur capacity).

 

When I have been asked for them: I refer the `askers` to the paid professionals and suggest they do the job. At the end of the season I have, on occasion, made up a disc of assorted moments and given them as a gift to some athletes, but this is haphazard: I do not wish to make any rules or create any future expectations.

 

 

3. Mary Ball`s point 5 (Signature Poses) struck a big note with me, I think you would be well advised to note that you actions prior to the Formals (if any) will be implicit to the Professional as to how he/she expects you to behave.

 

4. I really like Peter`s Zen view of the Wedding Guest, but IMO I have a camera as an extension of me, and I am partly naked without it: a Wedding it is not about me, correct, but as I mentioned previously, there are many aspects of life to be captured, at a Wedding, that I can do without raising attention or diverting focus to me.

 

5. In summary, I think the first five minutes, or so, will set the tone: it will be important that in those first minutes (or if you decide to liaise prior to the event) you clearly indicate your intentions by the deed / word / demeanour / body language: as mentioned by Neil Ambrose the fact that you have asked the question (and followed up so vigorously) indicates that you are thinking deeply about the whole thing and how to play it out.

 

On a side issue, sitting here away away from the geographical mainstay of Photonet the `violation of contracts` and `should not take a camera to a Wedding` thoughts are not only interesting to read, but somewhat alien.

 

Guy, I am most interested to know the outcomes and see the results of this venture.

 

WW

 

 

 

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[vincent_stanford]

I have done several weddings as a guest photographer. Not having to do the album shots makes this fun. I use a Nikon D200 with an Nikkor 80-200mm f2.8. I set the auto ISO to allow it to go up to ISO 1600 and took shots without flash from distances of mostly unaware subjects. Most did know that I was doing a photojournalist style shoot of the party. A bit of Noise Ninja later and the stealthy available-light portraits I shot and printed on a nine ink HP 8750 were the ones that the families put up on the walls. It was fun and I was glad that I outfitted for a completely different shoot than the professional photographer was making. By complementing the pro instead of competing her I got about hundred shots that people absolutely loved. The pro made a lovely posed-and-flashed album that people loved too.

[mwr]

I've shot (as a guest) at many weddings over the years and my rule is (1) never to interfere with the professional photographer and (2) there are not other rules. I don't drape myself with equipment (I'm a guest not a photographer) and if my shots sometimes are better than the pro's, well, that's the way it is. Many guests take photos at weddings, and all a professional photographer can or should expect is that they don't interfere with him/her.

[mike_puraty]

Haven't read entire discussion but in my experience the "Advanced Amateur" is the least of the Pro's worries..It seems Aunt Rose and Uncle Willie with their P&S cameras and flash do more to disrupt the paid help's job than a polite and briefed "AA". Then there are the teens wanting to get every shot the Pro is attempting to record..Still some Pros are more comfortable working alone...Whatever the Pro wants is what you need to respect, even if it means stowing most if not all of your gear.. Seen too many weddings turn into a near paparazzi mob.

[richard_wang10]

Guy,

 

If the wedding party says ok, I say go for it and if you want bring all your equipment, great, just don't look like a dork or worse piss off your date.

 

I don't shoot too many weddings, thank God, but my attitude is I'm a pro, I get paid to deal with the situation and to get the shot.

 

Imagine what would happen to me if at an political fundraiser, I told a supporter, "Hey don't take picture while I'm taking pictures." Even better, what if I told some mom not to take pictures of her son at bat because it'll ruin my shot.

 

If you're not making any money shooting, it's probably not because of Uncle Bob taking pictures with the fancy camera he bought at Cosco.

 

If they're not buying your pictures, you should probably look at what you're doing not what others are doing.

 

Remember, we are the hired help. We are the same as the caterer, the bartender, and the DJ. We are there to do our jobs discretely, professionally and not get in the way of the occasion.

 

Guy is a guest. He was invited to the wedding. That's a big difference. He's family and he's get a lot more latitude to do whatever he wants.

 

If you start pushing a guest around, who's in your way, or start telling them to get out of the shot, or just generally acting like a fool, you're not going to be in business very long.

[dave_shilling__sacramento_]

Since you've been given nearly every incarnation of advice at this point, I will only serve as a reinforcement for one version.

 

Travel super-light. bring the 5d and rent a 50 f/1.2. (yes, its not a "light" lens) throw an extra battery in your pocket, and do your thing. Be where he/she is not. Man, forget posed formals. Pre-planned emotion is not "artsy." If you really want to get what you're looking for, blend in with guests, take nice shots of guests conversing with the bride, groom, etc. Capture some real emotion, some unusual perspective, and think in black and white. I'm pretty sure that you will have so much more fun this way. the 50mm will require you to actually be a guest , talk, have a good time, etc, then get a shot of everyone laughing at your awesome one-liner about the priest and the rabbi who walk into a bar. using a 200mm suggests that you're going to be this random loner guest out on the grassy knoll, taking paparazzi shots. And yes, a huge white lens is a distraction all by itself. Why does Canon have to cry out for attention like that? =) Man, I cant wait to do this myself, now that I made it sound so fun! All my friends just want to hire me.

[bluphoto]

Dave,

I like your way of thinking. a straight 50 it is.

 

Thanks

Guy

[thorpe]

This has been an interesting discussion. I would like to focus on the signature poses and/or the "formals".

 

I have photographed weddings as the photographer and also attended several as a guest where I have brought "some" equipment - meaning a single body and a 35-70 lens. I have not taken shots of the formals as a guest as it does interfere with the photographer without exception in my experience.

 

However I want to bring you back to your original message- you stated ...the potential for a few portfolio shots, and maybe a good venue for networking etc.

 

In this case this is absolutely not representative of your work, the poses, the lighting, the mood, everything are all the creation of the paid photographer. The best claim to this work you could make is you were there at a moment to push a button - literally.

 

Setting aside any copyright issues and a possible law suit from a photographer for claiming rights to his creations, I think that passing that work off as your own in a portfoliio or in any other manner would lack ethics and would not be a representation of your work, but that of someone elses.

 

when I am the photographer at the wedding I ask guests to not shoot the formals while I am shooting. Many times I will take them away to pre-selected scenes. Very few people follow. this is not always possible and sometime you have those paparazzi moments. In those cases I simply ask that people not to shoot and allow me to get the shots I need, then I will allow people to take similar shots afterward. Before I "release the scene" so to speak, i tell the posed group to relax- they are still grouped but not posed. This assures they are not stealing my work and the photos will look different. I also cut that off after about 15-20 seconds. My main focus is to keep this moving, get the job done, and get the B&G back to the wedding and their guests (which are wiaintg). One of my pet peaves as a guest is to have a photographer that keeps an entire guest list waiting on the B&G for 2 hours (and I have seen longer).

[bluphoto]

I hope you were talking generally here, Stephen, and not talking about my specific circumstances. I'm sure I've said it often enough in this thread that I'm NOT looking to replicate the pros work.

 

As I said earlier, I'm shooting images in my own style, and am mainly going to be where the pro IS NOT. (Maybe whith the exception of when he's taking MY picture - at which point I'll likely get someone else to hold my camera)

 

You do raise an interesting point, though, about shooting when someone else has assisted in or done) the creative work. things like advertsing shots, who have TEAMS of creative assistants, and don't tell me EVERYTHING is controlled 100% by the photographer. I still think the guy who pushes the button is entitled to use the images in his portfolio though.

 

I was at a photo workshop a year or so ago, where there were ten photographers, a couple of models and a lecturer to demonstrate and set up lights etc. No-one can say those pictures aren't my own - even though they weren't up to much.

 

I agree that there must be a lot of work goes into arranging guests for formals, but from memory, the photographers instructions to the guests at the last wedding I attended were simply something like "stand there, okay 3..2..1 great, thanks, next...". Not quite a creative tour-de-force..

 

That said, I might still take a picture of a beautiful bouquet of flowers, and never consider crediting the flower arranger - and that might have taken them a lot longer than 321-next. I'd never insinuate that I'd arranged them myself, and even if I WERE intrested in shooting formals at a wedding, and didn't care about disrupting the pro's work, I'd still not claim the poses were my own. For that matter, just how creatively do you pose those neices stepdads ex-wifes brother and his family?

 

I posted a thread on here a year or two ago asking if a particular "pose" could be copyrighted. The overwhelming answer was "No" - in fact I think it was unanimous. I could copy the precise pose and lighting technique from any image I saw if I liked - I could even hire the same model, makeup artist and clothes to make it almost indistinguishable from the original. There is no (or at least very lmiited) originality any more. I think if you're shooting in a public place, then anyone can legally (although maybe not ethically) take a photograph of you or your subject. Of course, it's your perogative to make it as hard for them as possible.

 

Someone tells me to put my hand on my head and then another guy passing by photographs me. Should the guy who told me to put my hand on my head get a slice of the action? mmmm...

[think27]

Guy

 

Interesting about the photo workshop you went to...

 

I went to a photo workshop in Cape May and Joe Buissink was the instructor that set up the shots... and we had to agree not to use any of the photos we took in our portfolios. In fact the entire workshop with instructors like Monty etc... all had the same policy.

 

In your case, perhaps a "hotel" photographer is not going to care but the more upscale photographers would. However, a moot point since you already stated you would not be copying poses.

 

Enjoy yourself - and I'm sure you will take some great photos and hopefully have a little chat with the hotel photographer early on.

 

Please share your work with us after the wedding...

[m_baez]

The photog at my sisters' wedding was an absolute jerk. Acted like he was directing a movie and financing it out of his own pocket.

 

Good shots, though - as it was his job to do so.

 

But he HATED seeing anyone else with a camera in-hand.

 

Wife and i learned a couple things about this and try not to recreate that atmosphere when we shoot.

 

In my opinion, if there's time, ask the photog first. Get a feel for his/her attitude and definitely get shots of things he/she isn't focusing on.

 

After that, blend in. But keep your eyes open!

 

Couple of years ago, one of my friends (almost like a brother), invited my wife and i to his wedding (on one of those floating flotillas that has multiple decks - ceremony on top, food on bottom, dancing/reception in the middle).

 

We took our BASIC equipment and wound up getting a great shot of the B&G as he dipped her during their first dance - then they kissed.

Meanwhile the photog was on the other side of the room trying to get in the doorway...and missed the shot completely. Turns out, they loved the shot we got.

 

Who knows what you might capture?

[jag1]

I suggest you quickly buy one or two very small used autofocus film cameras, such as a Leica Minilux, Contax T2/T3, Yashica T4, Nikon 28Ti or 35Ti or a similar high-end p&s camera with extremely good optics. If the cameras you find are also fitted with leather half-cases with strap lugs (most of these models don't have lugs on the bodies themselves), sling one over each shoulder, then put your suit jacket on over that.

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While standing around being the guest, no one will really notice that you have two professional cameras on you, especially the pro, who will be more likely to take a few snaps of you during the day.

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Iso 400, 800 or 1600 negative film for the indoor shoots and a good high quality iso 200 negative film for the outdoor shots should work out fine.

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Remember, you're not being paid for this and the bride and groom might appreciate your participation more if they think you're having a good time instead of "working."

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Leave the 5D at home. It's way too bulky for the guest role you should also be playing.<br/>

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Best Regards<br/>Kevin