jkilgo Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 I know this is not new issue but I would appreciate some advice from some of the "old timers". I've read that the more you critique, the more attention it brings to your own portfolio. I agree with this to a point, but I've been doing a little experiment the past few weeks to see if there is some measureable correlation. I spent several hours yesterday providing what I consider to be 49 substantive critiques...in response I got one in return and 16 visitors to my portfolio...very disappointing. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrstubbs Posted May 10, 2008 Share Posted May 10, 2008 Not a crit on your crits J...but simply "a nice comment" isn't always very helpfull. You may get more response from your postings if you pick some images where you can offer advice to the photographer...(as well as a nice comment). We're all at different levels..try to help those who havn't got to your level yet. You will get more responses that way. Pass on what you learn...feedback will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 10, 2008 Author Share Posted May 10, 2008 Anthony, Thanks for the response...I find your perspective interesting, but I'm not sure if I agree...I will consider your points though and maybe I'll put more emphasis on critiquing and see if, as you suggest, this increases interest in my portfolio. jwk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Persistence. Patience. Give quality feedback where requested. Try to discern the type of feedback the photographer seems to welcome. Some folks welcome suggestions for cropping, tweaking, composition, etc. Some don't and want only classical artistic criticism. If you're not comfortable with the latter, don't suggest "I'd have done it this way." Also, there are probably hundreds of thousands of photos on photo.net and many more on the web. It's not easy to gain any attention at all to ones photos. When you get any responses at all you're doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bosshogg Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I think generally there are more takers than givers here. That is probably true in many other endeavors, so it is not exactly a revelation. I'm mainly interested in establishing back and forth communications with other photogrphers. So, after I have commented upon a person's photos a few times, and they do not respond in kind, I move on and do not return to their ports. If you look on their page and see that they have rated very little, and have written few comments, yet have received lots of rates and comments, then you know that they are the sort who only want people to give to them, but are not willing to give back in return. And, I do not get angry if someone pans my image. I'm looking for responses, not for pandering. I also look to see if they are a paying member. If they are, then they are more likely to be good community citizens than someone who just uses the site for free and contributes little to its financial success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lex_jenkins Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 I've been here long enough to no longer generalize about any connection between paying subscribers and the quality of their participation. Some of photo.net's most experienced and valuable longtime participants have seldom, if ever, been subscribers. And some real PITA types have subscribed and promptly caused more trouble than their subscription fee was worth. Also, some folks who come across as abrasive or unpleasant in discussion forums have been among the more astute observers in photo critiques. And some of the nicest, most helpful and knowledgeable folks in the discussion forums can't buy a clue when it comes to critiques. I have no idea where I stand because I can't afford even to rent a clue for the weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.kivekas Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 <i>"I've read that the more you critique, the more attention it brings to your own portfolio."</i><p> Unfortunately, my experiments too suggest this claim has no weight behind it. What is weird that a few years ago you could get a 1000 views in the first week of a new submission. Now, you can count them in tens. Comments are getting rarer and rarer too. It's unbelievable that I've got a couple of photos with well over 100 000 views. Seeing how poorly the figures cumulate today it makes you wonder. What if the old figures are mostly air -> questions...<p> Frankly, the site is in some sort of crisis. And if you take it up the joshes of the site sing in frustration that they are doing their best and only get complaints. I symphatize, but it is their job to make this site work. I think they should look into TPS, Kaizen and such and really understand that they should only do things that add value to the user. The site is slow, view numbers are low and getting lower and people like me, who have been here for long and are active are getting frustrated. To create tags and a new layout is just a smoke screen. I remember a situation from my own past when a client of mine said to me: "I don't want to hear a list of excuses, I want to get it work, I want to get it done!" That is one of the most valuable experiences of mine. It was hard but is was useful. The site needs more activity, it needs promotion. It doesn't need to be more complex with the latest net-trickery. It needs to work. I don't want to hear excuses about the server. I want high activity, high view numbers, high quality comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 "Any thoughts?" Making comments and critiques is a nice thing to do but won't get you many views or return comments if your work is not interesting. If you post images of your kids, vacation pics, cars, dogs, cats, waterfalls, birds or insects, they better be good technically and have a universal appeal to the viewers or no one will look at them. Don't be passive and expect the viewers and sight administrators to do your work for you. Read the forums, look for the good photographers and study their work and realize that all good things come with a lot of hard work and patience. That's my story and I am sticking to it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 A lot of good feedback/recommendations. I hope I'm not being to bold by saying that when someone posts images on photo.net, their main purpose is to share them with others...regardless of the quality, or subject matter. I agree with Juha that a couple of years ago every image submitted for critique would get saturated with comments/feedback. I've heard some suggest that the volume of photo.net participants is the main reason that comments are so hard to come by now...I don't know for sure. I do draw a lot of inspiration from other people's work on photo.net, but if people aren't willing to share their views and experience by making comments and visiting other people's portfolios, I'm wondering what the point of photo.net is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 By the way...in case anyone is interested in the results of my experiment...as of this morning I have posted 87 comments/critiques (since Friday), which has generated 53 visits to my portfolio and 3 comments/critiques on portfolio images...I guess not all is lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 "I'm wondering what the point of photo.net is." A place with lots of photo information and to post photos if you wish to see what people think of them. You can't make people like your images no matter how many comments and critiques you make. Improve your image making and post photos that pique the interest of the viewers. Remember, it's not all about "you"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knobby6 Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Its all about the ratings. A large portion of the people here only care about good ratings and nice comments. Kilgo, u want responses, try giving out high ratings and I bet u will get a lot more responses than from giving comments. I totally agree with Juha's comments. Also there is quite a few people here with multable accounts that vote for themselves, their friends and use the leverage to lower ratings on other members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Tim, thanks for taking time to respond to my question...I'm not sure though that your comments are very helpful...exactly what is interesting...and what constitutes a good photo/photographer...are you in this category? I have indeed learned much from the thousands of images I've viewed on photo.net, but I stick to my original assertion that if you don't attract viewers to your portfolio then you aren't going to benefit from the experience of others...that is the gist of my concern, not whether or not pictures of my kids are interesting or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Monte, Thanks for the response...interesting comments. I guess I'm sorta naive to the ways of photo.net. Now that you mention it, I have observed several instances of photographers using multiple accounts with different names...never thought much about it before. I'm still convinced though that there is a core group of photo.net members who just enjoy looking at pictures and want to learn how to improve their technique...I see myself clearly in this category. I don't really care about the ratings system because I don't care how good or bad (or interesting) my pictures are compared to similar images. I do care about what emotions are evoked by my pictures...and how I can improve them and this can only be ascertained by comments. Ah...the joys of photo.net...I'll crack the code someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christal1664882414 Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Although I'm not an old-timer (maybe the old part is right... :), but I've only been a member here at PN for a couple of months. My portfolio doesn't get much notice either, and I have not found that doing a lot of critiquing helps in any significant way. Perhaps it's because my critiques are not substantive enough. Nevertheless, here is what I tried that DID work. As I read other comments, I have found people who offer excellent advice or really appeal to me on some level.....something about their character I find appealing, a common or shared interest, or perhaps their subject matter or areas to which they've traveled. Twice I have found such a person and told them I love the way they contribute to PN....then invited them to visit my portfolio. I know it's a bit brazen, but in both instances they did it, and now these are 2 of my favorite people. Slowly but surely I'm developing a network of people who are becoming friends, and I know they will give me a true assessment of my work. It takes awhile, but I think it can be done. And like someone said above, when you extend yourself to another member and you get no response, then move on to the next one. It will come. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 <i>"What is weird that a few years ago you could get a 1000 views in the first week of a new submission. Now, you can count them in tens."</i> <p> This has less to do with this conversation than you might think. The views counter had a glitch that was corrected in Jan of 2007. Prior to that it had been counting thumbnail views as "full views", which really isn't correct at all. The corrected version only counts actual views of your image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.kivekas Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 What is a thumbnail view? Every time a thumbnail was visible? I didn't know that. The old numbers just lost all their significance. Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Yeah, any time one of your thumbnails were viewed. Which is why we made the change, it was really REALLY inaccurate. Good for the ego perhaps, but not accurate at all. Now, it also has to be said that the number of images submitted to photo.net has increased every month in recent years as more and more people get interested in digital photography. With more to look at, it stands to reason that the average number of views is going to do down for the average image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Christal, thanks for the recommendation...I will apply some of the techniques you suggest and see how it goes...by the way, I can see why your portfolio generates so much interest...you have many beautiful images...your perspective is interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Josh, that is interesting about the thumbnail view...but I would submit that not withstanding this fact, that many more people tended to make comments/critiques on photos several years back than do now. I understand that there are many more members of photo.net now, but I would think that with education to the general photo.net population, that one should expect more feedback now than ever before...just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshroot Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 <i>"but I would submit that not withstanding this fact, that many more people tended to make comments/critiques on photos several years back than do now."</i><p>Actually, the data shows that to be untrue.<p>In April of 2004: <br>24,812 images were uploaded & 48,396 comments were left.<p>In April of 2008:<br>65,646 images were uploaded & 67,009 comments were left.<p>There are simply too many people wanting comments/critique and not "paying back" into the system by leaving critique and ratings themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tholte Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 "Interesting" is what makes the viewer stop and look at an image. Not interesting, they don't stop. Learn what viewers find interesting and you will get a lot more comments. J. and Monte, if you do think their are members with multiple multiple accounts, you should report them to the administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkilgo Posted May 11, 2008 Author Share Posted May 11, 2008 Thanks everyone for all the recommendations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digitmstr Posted May 11, 2008 Share Posted May 11, 2008 Post nudes... ;p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjmeade Posted May 12, 2008 Share Posted May 12, 2008 It's a marathon, not a sprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now