5D or Mark II or MarkIII - Which one?

[weddingbelles]

I am upgrading my equipment, and am trying to decide which camera to get.

 

I shoot weddings, portraits, and headshots/zeds (modeling shots). I would love for you to check out my

websites and tell me which camera you think I should go to, I'm using the 30D right now, which will be my

new backup.

 

Is it better to get the 5D for megapixels, the 16.7 mp Mark II, or the newer Mark III?

 

Thanks!

[mendel_leisk]

Are you referring to the *1Ds* marks II and III?

[weddingbelles]

1Ds Mark II & 1D Mark III - the ds mark III is just too much! LOL

[claudiocruz]

I would go 5D, full frame and less problems than MKIII.

I never needed all mkIII speed on a wedding.

[scott_b.4]

Go with the 5D.

[conraderb]

kenzi - most people know their work better than others and are the best judge.

 

that said, I don't see why the mark 3's speed would be all that useful for you. unless you meant the 1dS mark 3?

 

if you really are not sure whether to buy a 5D ($2200 new, $1600 used) or a 1ds mark 3 ($8000 new?), I think that you need to sit back and look at your business again. the answer should be pretty clear when you run the numbers....

[markonestudios]

Off the cuff, I'd say 5D. that's what I'm planning on upgrading to. Several reasons:

<p>1. Full frame versus 1.3x crop on the 1DIII

<br>2. 12.8 MP versus 10.1 on the 1DIII - more flexibility when cropping.

<br>3. Lighter yet still robust build quality

<br>4. I doubt you'd need the high burst rate for wedding work. I currently have a 400D and the 3fps is plenty for me, even when doing higher-speed work. Timing is everything ;)

<br>5. 5D has matured technically. Production flaws ironed out and it's been tried and tested long enough that it's now a very reliable bit of kit. 1DIII may still have technical issues

<p>I do agree with Colin though, do what makes sense for the business, but my vote would definitely be for 5D... Save the $$$ you'd otherwise spend on the 1DsII and invest that in lenses

[fotografz]

1DMKIII. Make sure it's a later Blue Dot or Updated Blue Dot version.

 

For what a wedding shooter does, it's AF speed and accuracy is second to none ... even the critics of the camera acknowledge this.

 

Advantages/Considerations:

 

Weather sealed (which also means dust sealed); and has anti-dust feature neither other camera has.

 

Shoots to 2 memory cards at once providing instant back-up (8 gig cards in each slot reduces or eliminates potential mishaps.) 1DsMKII has this, the 5D does not.

 

19 cross type AF point array which allows lower light AF performance with off center subjects. (the 5D has 9 AF points in a smaller centralized array).

 

64 TTL metering zones compared to 35 with the 5D.

 

Lighter weight than a 1DsMKII due to much smaller battery and reduction of the over-all body weight.

 

Much larger, brighter, higher resolution LCD screen than the 1DsMKII, 1/2" lareger than the 5D's

 

Live View function which allows a one button 10X zoom-in to check focus when shooting formals ... before you shoot. Also allows overhead shots where you can actually see what you're shooting. Not available on either 2 cameras.

 

Better high ISO performance than either of the other 2 cameras.

 

While 10 meg. 1.3X crop, to the 5Ds 12 meg FF, it's a 14 bit converter compared to 12 bit of the 5D and 1DsMKII. (this can be more important than meg count)

 

Much tougher pro-spec build quality compared and to the 5D ... 5D shutter tested to 100,000 exposures compared to the 1DMKII's 300,000.

 

User selected features like "Highlight Priority" not available on either 2 cameras. (this is a terrific feature for wedding shooters ... think: "wedding dress").

 

Basis for this opinion?

 

Ownership and extensive use of all three cameras to shoot thousands of wedding images ... so my subjective opinion may be less biased by purchase justification : -)

[markonestudios]

Marc, you almost have me sold on the 1DIII ;) I DO have a few questions to challenge you on though:

<p>1. From a practicality standpoint, can you REALLY use Live View for overheads? Will you even be able to see the screen?

<p>2. Is 14-bit processing going to be as big a leap in IQ than a 56% (4.6MP) jump (30D -> 5D) in pixel count? In the final analysis (i.e. the client's prints/enlargements), does 14-bit make that much difference?

<p>3. Is build quality that big a factor for (relatively low impact) wedding shooting? For PJ I can immediately see the benefit; not too sure about weddings...

<p>4. On a 5D, a wide angle lens is w - i - d - e ;)

<p>5. Good point about dual memory slots for backup. Cant' argue with that :)

<p>6. Blue Dot or Updated Blue Dot says to me there are still technical issues, some of which haven't been discovered yet. I wouldn't want to be the one discovering these on MY camera ;) Not that the 5D is perfect, but it HAS gone through a longer life cycle such that most known issues have been resolved.

<p>Please don't misunderstand me, Marc. I hold your work in very high esteem and draw much inspiration from it, just that I'm not sure the 1DIII would necessarily be the best investment in this case, even given the valid points you make and your vast experience with these tools... Kenzi might be better served with saving 2k on cost of body and buying better glass to use on the 5D.

<p>Sincerely,

<br>Mark

[thierry nguyen cuu - nomad]

It's agood question. One that I had for myself and I ended up using the 5D AND the 1D3 for my weddings.

 

Let's not mention, yet, about the age of the camera but what they can do.

 

A lot of people refer to the 1D3 as a fast shooting machine. Even you don't need the speed, and may be you do, but I'd say that the 1D3 offers way better buffer than the 5D does, and this can make the difference when you need a burst of frames.

 

Full frame cameras are unbeatable for ultra wide angle. Do you use them often? Having said that, a 14 mm on the 1D3 doesn't crop to much of the frame, just take a step back.

[l_e]

Keep an eye for the new version of the 5d.

[fotografz]

Mark Anthony: All good questions. I'll try to be as pragmatic with the answers as I can.

 

1) yes, it works. I do it all the time to see over crowds in front of me. Yes, you can see the screen well enough to compose with. Focusing requires practice on the technique of AF lock then press the Live view button with your thumb, compose and shoot ... Or compose with live view, zoom 10X on the focus point and just shoot without zooming back out. Both work

with a little practice.

 

2) Look at the data size of a 16 bit file verses an 8 bit file. It's 2X the data. 14 bit verses 12 bit is 50% more data.

 

3) Build quality has more to do than bumping and banging ... which I DO think happens at weddings BTW. Some people with 5Ds shooting weddings are experiencing the mirror falling out as their camera ages for example. I've had numerous non L lenses disintegrate while better built quality Ls go on-and-on. Same for the cameras.

 

4) How wide is too wide when shooting people? Remember, we are talking about wedding applications here. I use a 16-35/2.8L on a 1DMKIII and have never run out of wide angle coverage at a wedding. For that reason I am selling my 14/2.8L ... it never gets used. Good for a 1.6X camera. Not needed for a 1.3X

 

5) Yep. I know 2 shooters that were saved by this feature.

 

6) Not in my experience. If there were issues shooting a wedding I sure the hell wouldn't use that camera and risk my reputation ... I have many other cameras to take it's place. I do not know one single wedding photographer who stopped using this camera due to internet debates.

 

On your last note: it all depends if the user wants to keep the camera for any length of time or be forced into getting another one in a few years. Any 1 series camera is going to out last a non-1 series camera. Your assumption is that she needs more or better lenses, which we don't know. If she is using a kit lens, then you are probably right. If she is looking for a

long term wedding camera, then the 5D isn't it IMO.

 

IMO, this is a great journalistic type wedding camera which I actually prefer to my 1DsMKIII ... and is only beat maybe by the Nikon D3 ... which I also own and use : -)

 

In the end, they all work well for wedding work ... some better than others.

[photo_dark]

Ok, not to be a stick in the mud, but the 40D has quite a few of those new features that the 1dIII has. 14 bit Raw files, the same 10.1mp sensor, same dust features, live view, 6.5 fps, 9 cross type points (ok, not AS good in that department). Highlight tone priority, 3" screen, larger brighter viewfinder.

 

It doesn't have the dual card writing feature, which to me, is gold. Not sure why they don't offer that on all EOS XXD and XD cameras, and the build quality isn't quite there. But whatever way you slice it, I'd say the 40D is actually a very close competitor to the 1DMK3... Not necessarily on features alone, but on a feature-to-price comparison.

 

My point is that.... I'd take a 5D + 40D combination to replace your 30D over a 1Dmk3. To me, you end up with the best of both worlds for the same price as a 1dmk3.

[mike_earussi1]

I'd personally wait for the 5D upgrade that will probably be out later this year.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Another vote for the 1D MArk 3 , for all of the reasons that Marc Williams lists. It also has better battery life than the 1Ds Mark 2.

[weddingbelles]

Wow, I am overwhelmed by the help! You guys are always great feedback.

 

So, I would love to wait for the new 5D, but I just can't. I have been pushing my 30D to do

what I want, but it's not enough. When I started I used it because I had used the 10D, so I

knew how the buttons worked, and I am self taught so that was important. But now, my

skills surpass the abilities of the 30D, and I need a machine that can keep up.

 

To clarify - I can't afford the 1DSMKIII, well I can but I think it's overkill. I was thinking of

the 5D, 1DSMKII (notice this is the DS but the II not the III), or the 1DMKIII.

 

I do need a couple new lenses, I want a fixed wide angle to attach to my backup, and I

really want a terrific macro for the little details - although I have been using my 28-135

for most of those, and really that's a lot closer than you'd think, especially with a crop.

 

I am leaving for Mexico on Monday to shoot a destination wedding, and I need a backup -

yes I've been using backups on all my shoots (so don't start, lol) but I've rented them or

used my second shooters if had needed to, which I never had (knock on wood).

 

I think I'll buy a 5D this week because I think for weddings, since we are blowing them up

bigger and bigger anymore, it will make more sense. I'm also looking at some gently used

Mark II and Mark III so I'll look at those again next weekend when I get back from

Cozumel.

 

Please weigh in further if you'd like, I am really enjoying the debate, as I'm sure many

others are. And I really truly appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

[KenPapai]

Well -- the 5D is getting rather old and it WILL be upgraded by Canon this year -- either late this month (April 28 anyone?) else late August as per usual Canon announcements. Also, the 1ds2 is too old as well. DSLRs are adbvanced imaging computers, so why buy something today that was several years ago's technology?

 

The 40D is an *excellent* upgrade from a 30D. Like was said, it has many of the features that debuted in the 1D3. Or wait for the 5D2 for approx. $2500.

[rtrace]

"I have been pushing my 30D to do what I want, but it's not enough."

 

"But now, my skills surpass the abilities of the 30D, and I need a machine that can keep up."

 

Reading this, I'm curious what you think are the limits you are finding in the 30D. Is it AF speed? FPS? 1.6x crop? ISO noise? Customization? What? If you can point them out, then it will be easier to say which camera would perhaps be better.

[stephen_kent2]

If you've not got much Canon glass, change to a Nikon D3 before it's too late!!!

[conraderb]

Ken - I hope that canon will upgrade the 5D as well, but remember that we don't know until it is announced. people have been expecting the 5d upgrade for over a year now - nothing yet. it sort of makes sense - the 5D is only $2200 new now, making it the affordable full frame to a lot of people. the nikon D3 puts pressure on canon, but I think that the 5D has held up quite well considering it is half the price (D3 new is $5000) - I bet that canon knows this and has delayed upgrading the 5D.

[stephen_kent2]

Things change so quickly in the digital world that your only ever a few months from being out of date, though major changes tend to come along less often. Thing is the D3 is here now and there's no guarantee that a new version of the 5D will match up. Though, I must admit, I waited for Nikon to take the lead before I made a move.

[er1]

I used to shoot with the 5D & MarkII but have since moved up to the 1DSMARK3's and depending on how serious you are I would suggest the same to you. As far as the Nikon D3... it's not worth the cross over.

[ben_rubinstein___mancheste1664880652]

There is a rumour that the 22nd will bring the announcement of the 5D mkII, to be honest it might be worth waiting a week to be sure.

 

Keep in mind that mixing types of bodies, your main and backup (which I assume will be your 30D) is not a great idea, your lenses won't work the same, ergonomics different, etc, etc. A couple of gently used 5D's gives you two excellent cameras, both the same for the price of one of the much higher spec'd cameras.

 

If you have the money and don't mind considering it then the D3 is a very viable option, all the advantages Marc mentions plus full frame which makes lenses like the 24-70 and 17-35 so much more sensible. It's everything the 5D should be but without the crop sensor or much higher and questionable extra megapixels of the canon 1Ds series cameras. I can't afford to replace my two 5D's with D3's mainly due to an investment in peripherals/lenses but I often wish I could! If you look at the new firmware update for the D3 you can see how much more photographer orientated Nikon seems to be, Canon have never upgraded a feature via firmware ever!

[savagesax]

With the 1ds mark3 I have, most likely the same for the 1d mk3, and the Nikon D3, are the amazing newly designed sensors. IMHO these new sensors, control color so much more. For me, comparing the 1dsmk3 to the 5D I have, the colors simply pop now! Something I loved in the Hasselblads. Well its back now with the newly designed sensors. A friend has the Nikon D3 and we noticed a huge difference with his as well. The new Nikon sensor pops brilliant colors as well; compared to his D200.

 

I was actually shocked...I was thinking several months ago, "I wish Canon and Nikon could make better lenses or coatings on lenses to improve color brilliance." I was wrong with this statement. Now, after shooting the 1Dsmk3 and seeing the results of the D3, my new opinion these lenses are wonderful. The problems were the past generation of sensors could not read color as well as the most recent ones.

 

Therefore Kenzi, since money is an issue, I strongly feel you need to take a few CF cards on a road trip test, to your local photo store! Bring some flowers in a jar or something with a lot of color and fire your 3 cameras of major interest. Use an L lens. I think you will be surprised. Try with and without flash and different ISO settings.

 

Bring the flowers home for your wife, before you tall her how much you paid for the latest camera!!hehe

 

Bottom line my friends here on this site, I feel right now, it is NOT how many megapixels there are, but how these new sensors READ true color. So if we forget about megapixels just for a second, I truely believe Canon and the new Nikon D3 are almost, or perhaps equal, because colors now look close to that incredible fantastic, vibrant, Fuji Velvia ISO 50 film. Happy testing!

 

Let us know what camera wins your heart!

[markonestudios]

Marc, thanks for your considered and patient responses to my questions. Again I say, you just about have me sold on the 1DIII (only cash restraints hinder ;))

<p>To the OP, the longer term investment is always going to be glass. Given your financial constraints, I believe you will get far more mileage with full frame 12.8MP and great glass than 10.1MP, 1.3x, 14-bit processing with sub-par glass. I would also consider the 5D+40D so you can reap the benefits of 1.6x AND full-frame.

<p>As someone rightly said, the product life-cycle of dSLRs (just like any other electronic device) is so short that one might as well make the jump now because in another 12-18months, today's technology will already be yesterday's history ;) A few months after the "5DMk2" comes out, you bet there'll be people trying to predict the "5DMk3" - you don't always have to have the latest and greatest, only the tools that works for you.