should camera manufacturer's be judged on their level of support?

[walter_degroot]

recently with this project of docuimenting 35mm P&S cameras that I will be

giving to younger folks in out church, I have seen many differences in the way

cameras, particularly inexpensive cameras, and even a few $200.00 models are

supported.

true pentax claims that have all model;s, but I had to find a second website to

find a manual. Why even bother? well, many of these cameras are not as simple as

a Pentax spotmatic or a nikon F!, or even a leica IIIF. they sometimes have

unique or BETTER? ideas. Especially when inexperienced fiolks have to use them.

Support and availability of manuals is spotty. Some companies charge $7.00 for a

manual and sometimes offer others as downloads. yes I have been to Mikle

Butkis'; excellent site, but nobody has everything.

Should pentax be at the top and canon and nikon nearer the bottom?

It costs very little to post manuals on line. Are canon and nikon sharks for

wanting to charge for a manual? I was able to get a polaroid/concord 35mm manual

and a fuji 35mm manual while I was still "watching" and not "bidding".

smart move on my part.

a few days ago alan peed and I both had the same canon sureshow 105 s

the manual is only available for $7.00. The canon elph LT 260 manual is

downloadable. The better camera has LESS support? WHY?

Please don';t preach to me about business, the company SOLD the camera or

whatever and is obligated to provide SOME support.

especially, if it doesn't cost them more money.

I say better support , better company,

Fuji seems like another decent one. Kodak EVEN has old camera manuals on-line.

Just my rant even if it is true and needed to wake them up.

[lex_jenkins]

Free isn't free.

 

Those online manuals in PDF and HTML format? Somebody is paying for the servers and access. When demand is excessive I've seen many "free" documentation sites shut down because the individuals who were generous enough to provide them were being taken advantage of. Sometimes all they ask is for people not to hotlink to the documents and at least have the courtesy to go through the front door. Nope. Too many people want something for nothing.

 

Most companies do provide a certain level of support for a reasonable time. In general, camera manufacturers are far better about this than manufacturers of consumer appliances such as TVs. At least I can still get parts and information for my Nikon F3. I couldn't get a replacement remote control for a Philips TV that wasn't even out of warranty yet, or an explanation from their help desk about how to access certain features without the remote. Heck, I'd have paid for the remote but they didn't even stock it anymore. That's been my experience with most consumer electronics, other than a few major brands like Sony.

 

You appear to be complaining that $7 isn't cost effective for a camera that's probably only worth $7. That may be true. But what economic model would make an instruction manual for a $7 camera cost less to print and ship than an instruction manual for a $700 camera? If you can find that economic model, please forward it to Washington, D.C., where they've apparently lost their copy. They might even pay you $7.

 

I hear the strains of Dire Straits' "Money For Nothing" warming up in the background...

[walter_degroot]

yopu make good points and Mike Butkus is an exception and a good example of someone who cares and wants to help.

A company has to have a webserver and a web page anyway.

and I feel it would cost little to add some pdf files.

Of course, the way things seem to go, people are paid big bucks to constantly change websites, seemingly to make them UNusable.

 

I will not make any money on this project, and I am hoping I will not lose too much either,. But it would be nice, indeed, if it was easy.

I am sure if I didn't write up a Mini-Manual and provide it, 95% would still get good photos.

Your excellen point is that some link to pages and files, and they should not, I have many times clicked on a link and immediately a download started.

some seem to provide a "service" but where dis they get the 12,000 files they are selling? Have they gotten them free. or from a free site like pentax or Mike Butkus?

[bobatkins]

I'd assume that camera manuals are copyrighted. It cost the compnay money to write them and they are intellectual property. Technically you can't offer copies of a manual that's copyrighted by someone else, nor can you sell one.

 

That being said, I've no idea why some companies don't make on-line copies of their manuals available. The added cost would be trivial and it probably costs a company more than $7 to process an order for a hard copy anyway!

[photo_dark]

I think it's rediculous that there is NO way to download a manual. I think at the very least, they should have you log in to be able to access any support.... That's fine, limits excessive downloads.

 

But not offering it at all is rediculous. Bob hit it on the head, the cost of processing an order for a manual is going to equivalent to the $7 paid... so why bother? Before I buy a product, I will often try to find the manual online and have a read through it to see if it really offers the features i'm looking for. It's frusterating to me when I can't find the manual, and more than once, it's led to me purchasing another competing product that did offer the manual online (not necessarily a camera, seems none of them offer manuals anyways)

 

I do web design as a side career along with photography, and I can tell you that the amount of bandwidth it takes to download a pdf manual probably costs less than it does to load up one of their flash 'product tour' apps, which ultimately is far less useful than a manual.

 

To me, the question is similar to "should a wedding photographer be judged on his/her interpersonal skills?" It's not the primary issue, but it certainly makes a difference.

[johan_de_groote]

Yes, by all means should companies be judged by their level of support.

 

Having a manual online is normal these days and should be free. Most of the cameras come with the manual on a cd these days so the cost of having to convert to pdf is nil. And this isn't something that will be downloaded unless there is an interest in the product. Be it because you have the camera and lost yours or are a serious customer making an informed choice.

 

No problem if they charge for a dead tree version.

[sagephotoworld.com]

Manuals should be free online because the older cameras that come without them are liable to be purchased by beginners who will then want to upgrade later. If the manufacturer gives them a sweet experience then they're more likely to stay with that manufacturer.

[walter_degroot]

I just got a fujifilm P&S. while "watching"

I went online and got the manual. If i didn't use it

I can always send it to Mike Butkus!

but i wanted to know the battery type, the dx setup, and if it was a fixed focus "el-cheapo".

this happened to me with many computer parts. I have been pretty lucky tho. I found a driver and specs for a unknown LPT2 pci card in 15 minutes.

 

let me even more specific, Lex you are showing some sympathy for companies that DON'T provide excellent manual support.

Don't you think if Nikon or Canon does NOT provide all the manuals, thay are acting likea "fly by night" company?

 

I do agree if a company had to scan and prep each manual, it would be a chore. But the manuals as every other document today is available in an electronic/ digital format. if you need convincing, type the (unusual) name of a friend who was involved in a lawsuit.

the court decision will pop up. Now I know she din't get 6 million dollars, only 800 thousand!

I am irked by companies that make a profit on this.

HP sent me to driverguide for a driver. they made it easy but why do it that way.?

[oxide blu]

>>> Free isn't free. <<<

 

Yes, "free" is "free".

 

And if you consider the traffic and exposure to new products that access to "free" documentation generates, I suppose there may be an argument that offering "free" manuals actually generates revenue for the company.

 

Anyone that charges for access to online manuals in this day and age just comes across as greedy or financially strapped. But hey, manuals are copyrighted property and I respect that. So, you gotta pay what you gotta pay.

[walter_degroot]

if something is copyright-ed than re-publication would be illegal.

those that sell copies of manuals should be held liable.

However if you purchased or own a product, a tv or a camera or conmputer,

part of the original price is the instructions. and the owners of this device are entitled to have a copy,

 

this should not apply to those who make a living selling copies

of COPYRIGHEd material. selling originals is OK same as a used bookstore.