Dennis Newman Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I have an Epson R1800 printer. The prices on ink are killing me! Has anyone tried using ink from third party suppliers like InkFarm or Jet Tec? I'd like to hear what your experience was like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 MIS Ink is fine but much less glossy and has much lower Dmax. I recommend it for semi-gloss media or matte. I'm still looking for refillable cartrides that will work with the R1800. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrea_ingram2 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 Try Lyson CIS. Excellent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_cooper Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I've had good results with MIS inks with my Epson 1280 and 2200. Cost savings run about 80%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellis_vener_photography Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 to add to what the others have said: you'll also need custom profiles for your paper , ink and printer combination if you don't want to waste even more time and money juggling color and also risk greater frequency of nozzle clogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_young1 Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I tried many on my 1800 with the following results. Exellent to trash. I found that one order would work just fine but the following order would give me magenta tint. I would send these back and get another batch that would privide me with green tint. I waster so much time and money and materials that I now have a box with about 50 third party cartriges that I can not use. I am back to Epson. I can get these on line for about 12us delivered. http://www.atlex.com/epson-stylus-inkjet-printer/photo_r1800_printer_paper_ink.htm btw the two black and the gloss cartriges seem to be the safest. I have used them with the epson color cartriges with generally good rusults. good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsimmons Posted April 1, 2008 Share Posted April 1, 2008 I use the MIS K4 inks in my R2400, and like Ellis said, once I profiled my papers, my results are excellent. But I think it would be good to hear more comments from those like Roger Smith about the difference that using the R1800 compared to our R2400 or 2200 printers. http://www.inksupply.com/r800ink_org.cfm MIS states clearly that their R1800 inks are not quite as glossy, but they imply that it's not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steven_. Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 I've been using the archival ink from Efillink in their refillable cartridges. The ink is better than OEM with much less metamerism, bronzing and gloss differential----and you will save 80-90% in cost. They sell a sophisticated CIS but I don't have it simply because I don't print enough to make it worthwhile although it's gotten good reviews. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_earussi1 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 All the third party inks tested by Henry Wilhelm have proven to have very short life under display conditions, on the order of 6-12 months. Now if you're just printing snapshots for fun or mapquest directions that's fine. But they are certainly unsuitable for a print you want to display for a while or sell. http://www.wilhelm-research.com/dpn/DPNow_3rdPartyEuropeanInk.pdf http://www.wilhelm-research.com/hardcopy/hardcopy.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Hi Jim, I'm testing the MIS vs the R1800 inks now. The MIS ones look like MIS PRO (which I also use with an R220) but bronze a bit more. For bronzing (best to worst) UTR2, MISPRO, MIS R1800 inks, Epson R1800 OEM The gloss optimizer gets rid of gloss differential using the MIS or OEM inks. The glossy Epson inks make pictures on Premium Glossy look like a Cibachrome and have very high gloss. I'm not sure if I actually like it for my work. A Fuji Frontier is way more subdued for glossy prints which is my reference. The MIS inks look really dull on standard glossy papers, and gloss optimizer doesn't help. The only gloss-type paper I really like them on is Harmon FB Al. On Epson Premium Semi-gloss (my standard paper) the MIS inks look better as they bronze less. However blacks are way less deep (measure dmax of 2.05 or so vs 2.50+ with OEM) and I haven't found a setting letting me use Photo RPM with the MIS inks without density reversals- anyone have any suggestions on getting a better black? The Epson inks don't have this problem and Dmax goes from 2.4 with Best Photo to 2.6 with RPM (not really visually distinguishable). For the MIS inks I use Premium Luster as the paper type with PSG- works better. I make my own profiles with PrintFixPro. The Epson R1800 profiles are okay, but too cool for my tastes. As far as longevity goes I wouldn't ever use bargain basement inks like the ones Mike links to. The MIS ones (Image Specialist ink?) are pigmented, not dye-based, and folks like Paul Roark have done some fade testing for carbon and color pigments vs the Epson inks. Many of us use blended inks for B&W printing and I have B&W prints from 2 years ago that are still fine, and should by far outlast the Epson OEM color inks and minilab glossy prints. I only started on color a year ago, so can't comment beyond saying early prints are still fine, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Worth a read on pigmented inks and longevity: http://paulroark.com/BW-Info/R1800-Lightfastness.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_earussi1 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 Interesting article on B&W inks, Roger. Any articles on color inks that you know of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsimmons Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 It's my view that the Wilhelm article that Mike refers to only address es those cheap replacement carts that are often store-branded (for instance, Jessop's ink carts referred to in the article), and to get the word out to amateur customers who have seen their inkjet prints fade but don't know why. Epson, et al, just love this message because it gets customers running back to their OEM carts. But you notice that the article did not include any research on MIS, Lyson, and others that are a whole different kettle of fish. These are truly professional solutions to the problem, with real chemists working to make archival, equivalent inks. I don't know why Wilhelm has not tested MIS inks, for instance, but I doubt that Epson and the other companies that pay for his research would like to see those results published. Pure speculation on my part, but that's my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 2, 2008 Share Posted April 2, 2008 The color pigments referenced in the B&W article are the ones MIS uses in the color sets as well- main finding is that cyan is more lightfast than magenta and yellow fades fastest. Wilhelm only tests inks where the manufacturers pay him to do it (or in the case of the generic inks where other manufacturers pay him to test and then trash the cheap inks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 I just profiled the OEM inks with PrintFixPro and compared to the MIS inks also with a PFP profile. The OEM inks seem to have a greater gamut (boring test chart images show this) and OEM @ Photo RPM blows away MIS @ Best Photo for Dmax. I'm not a Dmax junkie, but the difference is *really* apparent and makes the difference between an image that jumps out at you and not for a shot I have with a gravestone in partial shadow. I had another image which I printed in "matte" on a Fuji Frontier as 8x12 and compared it against the same image printed as 8x12 (on 11x14 cut Epson Premium Luster paper). The paper is quite similar with the Frontier "matte" being closer to Epson Semigloss. Image color is almost identical. The Epson print has rougher "grain" as I sharpened for a contone printer, not an inkjet. The Epson is a bit sharper. The R1800 with OEM inks has a noticably deeper black than the Frontier. On the downside, from an angle the bronzing is present and annoying on the Epson. The OEM inks gloss is also a bit much for the paper and gives me a "wet paint" feel. I prefer the lack of gloss of the MIS inks on semigloss paper. Not bad... might have to reconsider the expensive OEM inks for big prints and just send everything else off to a Frontier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimsimmons Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Roger, I've recently begun to use the Innova Fibaprint Semi-matte for my best B&W work. It requires switching to the Photo Black ink. The blacks are nice an deep compared to my matte paper prints, and it compares very nicely to silver prints of the same B&W negaties. I don't have a Dmax measurement, I just eyeball it compared to other prints. I've done no colour on this paper yet, but I am thinking it might be nicely saturated in addition to the rich black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_rochkind Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 Instead of changing inks, change the printer. The R1800 uses small cartridges because they travel on the head. Bigger printers (e.g., 3600 or whatever the exact number is) use bigger cartridges and feed the ink through tubes. Just as with orange juice and laundry detergent, you save a lot with the bigger cartridges. The printer cost difference is can be made up by savings on ink in only a few months. If you make the switch when the R1800 is mostly out of ink, you also should include in the equation the new ink you get with a new printer. And, subtract what you can get for the R1800 on eBay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger_smith4 Posted April 3, 2008 Share Posted April 3, 2008 The Epson 3800 is $1300. http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/jsp/j_ShoppingCart/j_ShoppingCartView.jsp?oid=63062509&action=buy&BV_UseBVCookie=yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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