2 reel tank and volume of developer

[ron_miller5]

Another newbie question for you.

 

I have a SS 2-reel tank. When I process 1 roll of 120 in that tank, do I want

to fill the tank with solution (for both reels) or does it just need to cover

the reel with the film (which I will put on the bottom)? I put about 500ml in

my 1-reel SS tank now.

 

If this is what I should do, that means that the reel with the film would be

completely out of the developer during inversion. True?

 

Also, does the same hold true for both the wash and fixer that I use? Meaning

that I do as I would for the developer solution and only cover the reel with

the film in a 2-reel tank?

 

Thanks,

Ron

[david_dorcich1]

You only need to have enough chemical to cover the film in the tank, but be sure that the amount of chem you are using have the capacity for the amount of film you have in the tank. This isn't usually a problem unless you are using very diluted developer. You should put an empty reel on top of the one with film if you are using a 2 reel tank with only on roll of film. This will prevent the film from moving out of the chemicals during processing.

[jack_tripper]

Use 600mm of liquid. A few times of sods being created and you getting uneven development on one side of your film will teach you quickly.

[frank.schifano]

The best advice I can give you is to use at least the manufacturer's 0recommended amount of developer per roll for each roll in the tank. In the case of D-76 or XTOL, this amount equals 100 ml. according to Kodak. Failure to use the minimum amount may, and often does, results in thin, under-developed film. In the past, I'd had similar problems using the absolute minimum amount of stock solution, so I've opted to make 125 ml. my standard minimum. It usually works out that I need to use at least 150 ml. to get the total volume I need. The final volume is always based on this minimum. If you err, do so on the side of excess and you'll avoid problems of early developer exhaustion.

 

Don't sweat the part about the film being out of the developer during agitation. Plenty of developer is absorbed into the gelatin to keep working while agitation proceeds. Stop and fix can be treated the same way.

[ron_miller5]

David,

 

Ok, got it. So if I was setting up to use HC-110 at dilution H for 10 minutes with 1 reel in a 2-reel tank, I would need to fill the tank with enough diluted HC-110 for 2 reels because I need enough developer to last the 10 minutes in this dilution?

 

I am getting hung up when people use the term "processing" like in your statement "This will prevent the film from moving out of the chemicals during processing." above. I gather that the inversion I do is not part of what you are referring to as "processing" since inversion moves it out of the developer. Just newbie stuff. Thanks! ! !

[ron_miller5]

Thanks Jack and Frank.

 

This is a brave new world for me -- err, old world. Truth be told, I cannot wait to have contact sheets printed of the few rolls I've developed so far. I'm trying to get my head around looking at negatives with a loupe to see if I've got all the shadow details I exposed/developed for.

 

Having fun all along the way.

[david_dorcich1]

If there is only one reel in a two reel tank, it is possible on plastic tanks that the reel will move up on the center column so that after inversion the film is no longer covered in chemicals. Its fine for the film to come out of the chemicals during inversion.

[david_dorcich1]

With Hc-110 you want to use at least 6ml of syrup per roll of film your are developing. If you use less you risk the developer becoming exhausted before the film is fully developed.

[jack_tripper]

You're using HC-110? you really need to use 600ml of liquid then. Agitation will create bubbles. Frank I am sorry but I must disagree. I have seen uneven development, from using HC-110, that looks like bubbles, why? because the film was sticking out of the liquid and into the bubbles that were created through agitation.

 

Standard development tank capacities are 300ml, 600ml, and 900ml (for single, double, and triple rolls. and with HC-110 it is easy to measure the liquid concentrate, it is 10ml, 20ml, and 30ml.

 

Plus is it easier to measure 16.129ml for 500ml of working solution? or is it easier to measure 20ml for 600ml of working solution?

 

(Hc-110 @ 1:31)

[ron_miller5]

Jack / David,

 

Okay,

 

Err on the side of higher volume with HC110. Got it. I'll be doing a bit of experimenting this weekend with HP5+ and dilution H or maybe G. Just getting a hands-on feel for that developer.

[luke_ballard]

Ron,

 

I have heard so many ppl asking the question about how much dev to put in and fix and wash per tank and such. You are using a good tank setup. SS tank and SS reels are wonderful. Its what I use and have been for years.

Here's the deal, a lot of ppl say, just put enough to cover them film, mix out this exact amount and all that, if you want to NEVER have any problems with uneven dev, or lots of bubbles and such, just fill the tank to the top. It isn't hard, no measuring, if using D-76 which you mentioned, I use a TON of it, I just take my bottle (1 liter) of stock D-76 and take the cap off the tank, and start pouring very fast and smooth with the tank tilted at a 45 deg angle, I fill it all the way to the top. This way I ensure that I have plenty of developer in the tank no matter if its 1 or 2 rolls in it and that there will always be really fresh dev in the tank for the film. On a 1 liter bottle of stock D-76 I can develop 10 rolls of film before pouring it out and changing it, although I do strain it at 5 rolls just to get out the particulate. Now re-use like this will depend on the film being used, some films exaust dev a lot faster, that is why I use my test method below. Why risk having not enough dev, or having the dev in the tank getting exhausted very fast and not having extra to help make sure it?s fresh. The other posters are right, put a empty roll on top of the film roll if doing only one roll, if doing a 120 roll you won't be able to fit an extra roll, so I made up a small SS implement that fits on top and keeps the roll at the bottom, (I used an old banged up SS reel and fashioned it to fit perfectly on top of the 120 roll.

Developer like that is cheap, especially ID11 and D-76 and there is no reason to mix out perfect amounts, just fill it to the top and start developing. I have been doing this procedure for 22 years and it has proven itself to work every time and work very well. I have watched others mix out exact amounts for 1 reel and such and then seen their rolls have uneven dev, and problems with bubbles and a lot of extra air in the tank. So just fill her up all the way and you have no worries. I started doing this when I started developing in the very early 1980s and when I went to photo school a few years back, that is the way they taught it also. We had a very good instructor that had been doing film for almost 40years and that is how he taught the students.

 

I know I am gonna probably catch hell from some ppl about doing this, but it has proven itself over 2 decades of developing as a tried and tested wonderful technique that will always yield wonderful results. Its your choice to re-use your dev or not, some developers I wouldn't, like diluted dev, even D-76 diluted, its a one shot deal, I throw it away, but stock D-76 and ID11 and others, they can be used over and over with great results. Less mixing, saves time, money, and is perfectly ok.

 

If you want to know a little trick about how to test your developer if it has been used many times, or has been used 1 or 2 times and then has sat for 3 or 4 months, then email me and I will write out my procedure for testing your developer before you dev your roll. You can test about 7 times with the procedure I have developed and it is fast (15min at most) and it is full proof! It also will test your fixer in the process. I also use my fixer quite a number of times before I throw it out. But with my test method, you will never have to worry about putting your roll into weak or exhausted developer or fix.

 

It?s not like baking (as far as the amounts in the tank), it doesn't require exact perfect to the ML amounts to process as long as the film is completley submerged in developer. Just fill it up all the way and you never have to worry. With filling it partially there will always be some chance for problems. :)

 

Now let them come out of the woods and let the criticisms begin! Just remember, 2 decades of doing this has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, this process works everytime without any worries! Good luck happy shooting and Take care k!

 

Luke.

 

[User_502260]

The volume of solution in any tank can be tricky. I do not do stand development with extremely dilute developer so the issue of having enough developing agent per suare inch of film is not a pressing one. In order for the film to get proper agitation it is also important not to overfill a tank. A Paterson tank will use about 10 oz. per 35mm roll and still have enough extra space for te solution to move around when you agitate. Most stainless steel tanks need only 8 oz. per roll. If you are developing only one roll in a two reel tank then keeping an empty reel in the tank above the roll you are developing will prevent the film from being lifted above the chemistry when you agitate. Some of my stainless steel tansk take less than 8 oz. per roll. If I use 16 oz of solution in one of these 2-35mm-reel tanks there won't be enough air space above the solution to get proper agitation. These tanks need only 15-15.5 oz. of solution for two rolls. If I remember my coversion table 1 oz. = 29.57ML. By rounding this off to 30ml I get 480ML for 16 oz. At that rate 500ML is 2/3 of an aouce more than 16 oz. That small extra amount can be enough overfill a 2-35mm-reel stainless tank.

 

Somewhere I have old Nikor wide spaced 35mm tanks and reels. For people who like to develop with very dilute solutions these tanks are ideal.

[luke_ballard]

Forgive me, I re-read some of your post and I see you are using HC-110, in diluted forms, so disregard my D-76 and ID11 issues, unless you use them in the future. But my procedure still holds true for what I meant. As far as the amount of actual liqued in the tank, be it HC-110 or another Developer, just mix up enough to fill your tank all the way up. That is what I was getting at. Using diluted one shot developers is no different, such as Rodinal. If I mix rodinal 1:50 for a single roll, I will mix enough to fill my tank all the way up. This will prevent the issues your spoke of, even if you had just a single roll and it floated to the top of the tank during inversion, you would still have enough developer in the tank to keep it submerged. Keeping your film completley submerged is very important. I think someone said it is ok if it comes out of the developer during inversion, well I disagree there. Even though there is developer on it, it still isn't a good practice. It can cause uneven development or spots from bubbles during agitation or inversion.

 

So in short, have enough developer in the tank so that the film is always submerged and having a full tank will insure that fresh developer is always touching your film and doing its job.

 

Sorry that I didn't talk about HC-110 in my first post, but it really doesn't matter about the brand you are using, it matters that the film always has good developer and plenty of it and on it at all times throughout the development.

 

Luke.

[ron_miller5]

Luke/Jeff,

 

Thanks for the info.

 

A beginner with chemicals is a dangerous thing! Heh, heh, heh,,,

[rick_jones5]

Luke - how about giving us some detailed information on exactly how you manipulate your tank when agitating. I was always concerned about the lack of developer movement around the film if I filled the tank to the top. Again, exactly how do you agitate to get the even development mentioned in your post?

[luke_ballard]

When I say fill to the top, I mean fill until I can see developer at the very top plate of the top of the tank. It leaves just a slight amount of air in the tank, but very little. I can actually see the developer when I look into the cap area when the cap is off.

 

As far as agitation, I use inversion, I will invert the tank completley upside down and back right side up, then I will give it a 1/4 turn also. After a 5 sec agitation I knock the tank on the bottom of the sink to dislodge any bubbles and they actually come to the top area of the tank away from the film. That way I know that even with 2 rolls in the tank, bubbles will be above the top roll also, and both rolls, or the single roll on the bottom will completley covered in developer. Having a full tank of developer just insures that there is plenty of extra developer in the tank and the negatives always have fresh developer on them. With the standard inversion agitation you are just moving the liqued around in the tank and moving the developer that is next to the film away so that fresh developer can take its place and keep good development going. You can actually hear the movement of the reels inside the tank and you can hear the developer moving inside the tank when you invert it during agitation.

 

Did this answer your question? Just checking. I don't mind at all if you ask more, I am always happy to answer any questions no matter. To me there are no stupid or silly questions and asking questions helps us all learn.

 

Hope this helps?

 

Luke B.