UNREAL

[luke_ballard]

I tell ya, for those who know me on here, they know that I have been a big

advocate and Infrared shooter for the last 8 months or more and I happily

joined the Kodak HIE petition to keep it from being discontinued. That thread

caused a massive amount of people with so many different opinions, most of the

negative opinions were that, "Nobody uses it anymore, and there isn't enough

demand to keep it in production", "It isn't profitable for Kodak to keep making

it", and more and more of that. For those who shoot a ton of that film, like

me, it was absoulutly a disaster when they decided to discontinue it, it felt

as if we were loosing our best product to make our Art. I have only 2 rolls

left, so I went on a search for it today to see if I could find a few rolls to

get so that I can finish a huge infrared project I have been working on for

months. I knew that the only place I could find it was probably on Ebay, but I

was actually SHOCKED that it was going for anywhere from 25-50 dollars PER

ROLL! This was a film that you could buy for about 12-14 dollars/roll. Now it

is like a precious metel like gold, or silver, its price now is INSANE! Now if

that doesn't prove the value of that film and how great it was, I don't know

what does. I am SO NOT WANTING to cause another huge thread of people arguing

about it, but I just wanted to express my feelings about this INSANE issue of

how a "film" can go from 12 bucks a roll to 40 dollars a roll in a matter of a

few months. I don't think I have ever seen a photo product that was

discontinued and jumped in price that high and that fast. I mean I know that

cameras that arn't made anymore can go for huge prices. I myself have a MINT

condition Contax 2A with the color wheel and the Auto-Up Super Nooky 1M-50cm

attachment in the original box with the velvet layered bottom and I have the

original lens cap for it (which is usually the first thing to get lost) and it

has a mint Zeiss 1.2 50mm on it. That camera is now worth 350 to 400 dollars or

more with the entire package (Which I will NEVER sell). Back when they were in

production (1940's) they wern't near as expensive, but its an antique now and

like all antiques they are worth more now than they were, but thats a piece of

equipment, not a film. I just can't believe a FILM has jumped over 100% in cost

per roll since it was discontinued. Maybe that shows just how much of a demand

there actually was out there and how precious of a film it was to artist like

me and the others who tried all we could to stop its demise. Well anyway, like

I said, I wasn't writing to cause any controversy, and most people probably

knew this already, I just didn't realize it until today which was the first day

I really searched for any of it since the last time which was a week or two

after it was dissapearing from B&H and Freestyle. I remember looking on ebay

back then and seeing people selling packs of 10rolls for 130 dollars or less,

man looking back I wish I could have afforded it at the time cause 10 rolls now

would be worth 400 dollars or so. That is amazing. Maybe some kodak reps should

look at ebay and these forums and look at the price people are willing to pay

for the last remaining rolls out there. I bet they could put it back into

production and charge 20 dollars a roll which is almost double the original

price and that would maybe, im not sure, but maybe make it profitable again. If

they did sell it now at 20 dollars a roll, I would buy it! But I can't afford

40 dollars for a single roll, especially seeing how sensitive of a film and how

difficult it is to shoot. Just meaning, it isn't a simple film and no IR films

I know of are simple to shoot. With practice of course it gets easier, but im

now shooting Rollei IR400 and I know it took about 5 to 6 rolls before I really

figured out how that film responded to my camera and also how to develop it

well and shoot it for the maximum effect. At 40 bucks a roll, there just isn't

any room for screwing things up, you would go broke pretty fast. Anyway, just

thought I would express my shock with my fellow photographers on here and I

hope that this thread doesn't cause a ton of controversy or anything, that

wasn't my intention, just wanted to share my disbelief in what has happend

since the demise of one of the greatest films I have shot in 20yrs. Well, only

thing left to say is, So Long HIE..RIP.

 

Luke.

[todd_niccole]

Since Rollei-Maco-Mann has come out with a Kodak Techpan replacement while having there own existing IR film, you and others might petition Rollei to try and reproduce the Kodak HIE. I never used this film but still have a single unopened 35mm roll that expired in late 2004. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with it. It is it still good ... anyone?

[john_elder1]

Kodak doesn't care. I try not to use any of their products anymore. They did the same thing when they stopped making color dye transfer materials, which produce the best color imaging in the world. They did it again when they stopped making B+W printing paper. I printed on Polymax fiber for a decade. I try to support the companies that really care about the film photographer, like Illford. Its a shame that film is discontinued, it will be tough to replace, if at all.

[willscarlett]

I hear you there, Luke. If you think HIE goes for a steep price, EIR will also cost you a pretty

penny. The sad thing about the demise of films is that it seems to me that a lot of the people

who buy it just re-sell it on ebay, instead of actually using it.

[dave_wilson1]

John, my thoughts exactly! I said this on another forum and got jabbed moderately for it. (could care less, I'm a big boy) My comment was "I'm surprised Kodak is still in this" meaning the whole film thing. It wasn't an insult, just a matter of does Kodak really give a hoot? It's hard to tell. We're a long way past the Kodak of old and George Eastman.

[luke_ballard]

Hey Todd, you said you have a roll of HIE thats expired? If you do have a roll of it, let me know how you kept it since you bought it and I might be interested in purchasing it from you. John, you are right, it seems Kodak has become so big headed and cocky that they don't really care about the actual film photographers anymore. Seems like they only care about Digital and other things, as far as film and film products, it seems like they are constantly loosing thier dedication to making and keeping the awsome products that they once produced. About the only thing I use of Kodak anymore is D-76 and thier Fixer and the occasional roll of Xp2. Other than that, I agree completley, I am a HUGE Ilford and Rollei fan! Ilford seems to really care about film photographers and keeping good products out there for us to use, such as PanF+, FP4, HP5, and many others, just fantastic films! I think I have shot about 400 rolls of PanF+50 and FP4 in the last 2 years or so, Without a doubt I use Ilford film and chemicals in a big way! I love thier film and the quality and I love thier dedication to continuing to produce new film products when Kodak seems to be getting rid of as many as possible. I am a very big fan of Rollei film now, like I said I am using the Rollei IR400 right now and I really love that film! It took a bit to get use to, but once I figured it out, wow, I was impressed and thankful it was out there! Also Ilfords SFX 200 really hasn't gotten the respect it deserves. Most say, oh its not a true IR film and its only extended range is 740nm but I tell ya, I have shot it with the Hoya 72r and I have gotten some AWSOME photos with it, also the "Wood Effect" that us IR shooters really love really is impressive for that film only being 740nm into the spectrum. It is a really great film to start learning IR with. I found that my meter in my camera is sensitive enough to use TTL metering and no correction is nessesary with that film and my camera combo, also the Rollei IR400 was the same, if I metered it TTL to the correct exposure, I get a perfect exposure everytime! I have pretty much gotten to the point where I don't have to make any Filter Factor corrections or any corrections at all with both of those films, which really makes it great. Cuts down on bracketing and wasting shots trying to get the proper exposure. I have been planning on petetioning Rollei and Ilford to try and find the recipe for making HIE and trying to duplicate it cause I think they would find that a TON of photographers would be buying the hell out of it if they can get it almost identical to HIE. I hope that one day they will have an equivalent film to HIE, cause there was just nothing like HIE, it truley stood alone as a remarkable film for making beautiful Art! Thanks for chimming in guys and Todd, let me know if that roll your talkin about that you have is HIE or Rollei, if its HIE, I would be interested in buying it from you. I need about 2 more rolls to finish my project, so if your willin to part with it, I would be very interested. Depends though on how it was kept since you purchased it, just let me know.:) Thanks a bunch!

Luke

[luke_ballard]

Hey JP, good to hear from ya again. You are right, I think a lot of people that had a lot of cash on hand saw that comming and bought up every roll of HIE they could get thier hands on just to turn around and sell it now that the price has over doubled. And I think most don't have a clue nor any desire to shoot the HIE. Just really screws people like us that are trying to make beautiful Art and photos that last a lifetime and people can enjoy and they are only doing it for the money and could care less about the actual film. Some might say, well GO FOR THEM! They saw an opportunity to make a lot of moeny and took advantage of it, but the problem is, some might not take care of it and the more hands it passes through and the more its shipped then the more of a chance that something might ruin it in the process and thats just a damm shame. Would be really sad to pay such a price for HIE just to get it from some moron that didn't take care of it or store it properly and you end up getting crap instead of a good roll of film. Just my thoughts on those that did that, yeah makin money is fine, but it screwed a lot of people that really cherrished that film and wanted it perfect from the distributor. Good to hear from you again John P. Hope you have been well!

 

Luke

[tripanfal]

"Now if that doesn't prove the value of that film and how great it was, I don't know what does"

 

It does not really prove the value OR how great it was. It's basic economics, supply and demand. From reading your posts you have a strong connection to this film, and that's cool. I feel bad you're so upset about it. Good luck with your project. If I had some I'd send it to you.

 

-----------

 

My comment was "I'm surprised Kodak is still in this" meaning the whole film thing.

 

I think Kodak will make film as long as motion pictures are shot on film. The movie industry uses insane amounts of film. I was at the Boston museum of science and one IMAX film spool held so much film it boggles the mind.

 

Four-foot reels hold over 20,000 feet of film, 70mm wide. Sliced to 35mm that's 40,000 feet. Over 7 miles of film. If they discontinue camera film in my lifetime (unlikely) I'll shoot 5231,5222 motion picture film. For sure it will still be manufactured.

[tripanfal]

John Shriver nailed it in this post

 

http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NCwz

[todd_niccole]

I sent a personal email but just so you don't miss it if it is not your primary email. Unfortunately I just stored it on the shelf behind a glass sliding door in the kitchen. I would hate for it to go to waste if it is still useful and hasn't totally fogged over, I would be more than happy to send it to you for free.

[cblkdog]

Good attitude Todd, wish more people were like you. For those greedy ebayers we should make up fake accounts, then run up the prices and not pay. Those are the people that should be banned, along with kodak.

I know I'm very immature, oh well.

[25asa]

Popular films selling for $25 on the 'Bay is not that unusual. You should see what these films go for when they have been out of circulation for a while. I bought some Kodachrome 25 for $25 and it was shifted magenta to be un good.

[john_shriver]

Well, the price of HIE on eBay will peak and fall, because in 5 years, the sensitizing dye in all it will have broken down, and it won't have much infrared sensitivity. The short shelf life of all the IR films works against their success in the market.

 

Frozen Kodachrome 25 will only go up in price until the "last call" for K-14 processing. (Refrigerated K25 is rather worthless by now, all quite magenta.)

[lex_jenkins]

Luke, I feel your pain. Film is expensive and it's gonna get worse.

 

Two suggestions:

 

1. Paragraphs.

 

2. "Enter" or "Return" key. Just every few sentences. Please.

 

(Sorry, the former journalist and editor in me was squirming through your posts.)

 

If you wrote letters like this to Kodak to protest price hikes or discontinuing products, they'd probably never read 'em. Keep 'em short and sweet.

[luke_ballard]

Hello Lex,

 

You know I always respect your opinions on everything! This forum won't let me make regular paragraphs, as I have tried, (A single Enter and an Indent). When I click submit, this forum jams it all back together so I just gave up.

 

I am trying this, using Enter twice for a paragraph because I have seen in post as yours and others that doing that seems to work, but it is not actually grammatically correct. Believe me, it is not my writing so much as being passionate about my post and the speed in which I type. I actually am a fantastic writer and have a minor in English that was focused mainly on writing courses, (I knew it would help later in school). My problem is passion and typing speed. I can type at an EXTREMELY fast rate and I type as I think so as a result I can write for 2 minutes and end up typing a huge amount of information and that is why you were probably cringing. My letter to Kodak was published on here and a lot of people copied it because it was so well written. I think I need to translate that to my regular post in this forum. Sometimes I choose to be really laid back in things such as emails, forums, and such; However, I could write a position paper, an engineering analysis, or a review paper on any subject or material in either MLA or APA formats, both of which I have an extensive knowledge of and use a lot. This bad habit is a result of doing it every other week. I am getting my Doctorate and I am writing papers on a bi-weekly basis. So emails and forums are a chance to not have to worry about being so proper and checking every little detail.

 

I apologize Lex, of all people, I don't want to have you frustrated reading my post because I know that chances are you will post to my thread with a great comment or some good education, so again, I am very sorry to you and to everyone else. Honestly it is just pure laziness and I should carry over my excellent writing skills from school into every application I get involved in, be it a forum or emails and such. Thanks Lex for bringing that to my attention and I will make an effort to make a big change in my writing for you and the others that read my post. I owe that to all the people that read my post and comment on them. I will make a conscious effort to do better and make my post easier to read.

 

Thanks,

 

Luke B.

[lex_jenkins]

No problem. I know I make more typos than I used to, partly because my vision isn't what it once was and I don't see 'em.

 

It's unfortunate that prices of traditional b&w materials are increasing but it was inevitable. I predicted years ago that traditional materials would become boutique items, manufactured by specialty firms at high prices for a select handful of customers. Pretty much like some other artistic pursuits.

[luke_ballard]

Thanks Lex. If its one thing I and this Forum can count on from you and your post is, an educated opinion, kind words, and a non-argumentative tone. That means a lot! So many on here are so rude with their post and criticisms, but no matter if you disagree or agree, your comments and the way you deliver them are always kind and I respect that a great deal!

 

I appreciate you chiming in and your comments are always appreciated and very much welcomed in any thread I post!

 

Luke B.

[grain]

So now there's nothing above 820nm. from any maker.

That was all that made it worth doing.

What a sad short-sighted waste.

I so hate E.K.

 

R.I.P.

Panatomic-X

Kodachrome 25

Verichrome Pan

 

Next:

The Tri-X 320 sheet?

Plus-X?

 

The great Yellow Father has abandoned us for pixels.

Cleave not to their ashes lest ye follow polaroid SX-70 users into oblivion.