charity_goh Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Hi guys,I'm from Singapore and I just stayed up all night reading forums on a few schools I've got my eye on.Basically, I had three choices:- Brooks Institute of Photography- The Art Center College of Design- Hallmark Institute of Photography I don't see much ravings about The Art Center but I notice there has been a lot of discussion about Brooks and Hallmark seperately.I am having a hard time deciding between a formal education or a 10 month boot camp that honestly quite scares me to hear how crazy it can get.I know some people say that you don't need the formal degree. But since I'm coming all the way from Singapore and paying so much, it kind of makes sense right? Anyway, I would greatly appreciate all the advice I can get from you!Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Javkin Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 Check Brooks on the Web. A New York Times article on July 24, 2005, in the business section, "The School that Skipped Ethics Class," is very disturbing. To read the Times online, you either have to register or to get access through a service like Lexis-Nexis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted February 24, 2008 Author Share Posted February 24, 2008 Yes, I found that out when I pulled my all-nighter! But ultimately it didn't affect what they teach the students and I'm not going to believe everything they tell me. Everything with a pinch of salt yeah? Thanks for your input Hector! (: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector Javkin Posted February 24, 2008 Share Posted February 24, 2008 There's more. I live in the Santa Barbara area, and often run into Brooks students. I often see their ads selling off their equipment after finishing there, frequently for a song. Some seem terribly disillusioned with photography, not necessarily Brooks, once they're done, and see no use in keeping any of their photo equipment. This is a beautiful area of the U.S. and Brooks is in a lovely, scenic spot. It's great to have students in photography making a presence in what is a rather small population, but I'm not sure it's very good for those students. They seem a lot happier when they arrive, shopping at Calumet for whatever they don't already have, than when they leave. I believe in education (I should -- I stayed in school long enough for a Ph.D. and two post-docs, and I've taught) but I'm not sure you'll get what you need at Brooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted February 25, 2008 Author Share Posted February 25, 2008 Thank you very much Hector. I have not been reading very stellar reviews about Brooks either but my parents want me to have a proper degree. I tried explaining to them that a degree in this line doesn't necessarily mean that it gets you a better job the way it does in other industries but they don't really seem to get it. Anyone who has gone to Brooks care to speak up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric merrill Posted February 25, 2008 Share Posted February 25, 2008 Charity: I believe your parents do get it. If you are going to spend a lot of money on education, you would be better off with a degree from an accredited college than a piece of paper that has no other meaning. Get a degree in business and study photography as a secondary pursuit. If you want to make photography your career, the photography aspect plays second fiddle to business. Success in photography does not translate to success in business. The most successful photographers are not the best photographers. Just because you want to pursue photography now doesn't mean that you'll always want to. A degree from an accredited college has worth in other fields. A piece of paper from a photo specialty school doesn't. Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted February 26, 2008 Author Share Posted February 26, 2008 I understand where you're coming from Eric, but it's very easy to say take a degree in business without knowing what it takes or requires from a person. Going into a business degree is asking for trouble personally. You don't know me personally so of course you wouldn't know this. I know for a fact that I would regret and dread everyday in that school of business because I am simply not that kind of person. However, I completely agree that the business aspect of photography is vital and that's why Hallmark is great. They prepare you with that knowledge. While Brooks does provide business classes, I don't see that they have the same direction that Hallmark has. They prepare you for business and photography so that when they throw you out in the deep end, you don't sink. And I'm not sure that you are familiar with these two schools. When I say "formal education", I don't mean in Business or Accountancy or what not. This education refers to a photography course as well, simply that you obtain a degree at the end of the day. Plainly put, I know exactly what I want. I don't know if you've ever had the feeling when you know you are meant to do something and nothing else can come close. People may say it's an idealistic way of thinking and the real world will teach you lessons and change your mind but I know what's a phase and what's not. I don't just want to "puruse photography now", I want to make it my career and stay with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinblack Posted February 27, 2008 Share Posted February 27, 2008 A few questions: What kind of photographic speciality do you want to pursue as your profession? Have you researched that particular market at all? Do you know what the business of the typical photographer in that speciality is like, including overhead and annual personal income? What are your top ten goals in life? Answer those questions, and then I can probably offer some good options. For what it's worth, Brooks CAN provide an excellent photographic education IF the student (A) has natural talent, (B) is highly motivated and willing to work very hard both during and after school to make it work, and © if the student understands going in how hard it will be to set up a successful business after graduation. Many of their students become disillusioned because they went there with the wrong expectations and for the wrong reasons. They are attracted by the creative and romantic aspect, but are turned off by the hard work and discipline required to really stand out above the crowd, not to mention the difficult realities of the photography market after they graduate. One thing to know about most photo schools, is that a small minority of their graduates actually become successful photographers, so it is a really good idea to have a strong backup plan, though I suppose the same can be said for a lot of other undergraduate disciplines. If your end goal is to be a successful photographer, there maybe better ways to spend your time at university, and the aforementioned business studies are just one approach. Many successful photojournalists, for instance, have degrees that are helpful to their understanding, interpretation of, and access to their speciality subject area, rather than in terms of how to run a camera. Sebastiao Salgado is a trained economist, James Nachtwey studied political science, etc. Depending on the speciality you want to go into, you may not need extensive formal training in photography. The best things about formal photographic education (I speak as a former photo major in an excellent but relatively unknown fine art photo program) is that you get to shoot a lot while being held to high standards, experiment with different techniques and styles, have your work critiqued honestly and constructively by experts and peers (though photo professors in some programs are only experts in their own minds), and introductory work experience in the industry through internships. It is possible, however, to seek out or create these opportunities outside of a formal academic setting. Also, you might consider keeping Brooks in mind for grad school. The folks I've known who have done grad work there have always had a better opinion of the place than the undergrads. I imagine that a lot of this has to do with the fact that they had a very clear idea of what they were planning to get out of the place. Can you answer the questions I asked at the beginning of the post? Best regards, Justin Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff_lundstrom2 Posted February 29, 2008 Share Posted February 29, 2008 Just my two cents ... if you are coming all the way from Singapore then you may want to consider a school like http://www.risd.edu/ and similar programs (Syracuse University). This way you get a 4 year accredited undergrad degree AND top notch photo training. Then you can do a Hallmark or Brooks for grad. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted March 1, 2008 Author Share Posted March 1, 2008 Justin: Right now I am assisting a fashion/advertising photographer and this is the speciality that I am interested in. Being that I am in the industry, albeit just as an assistant, I am aware of the ups and the downs and this is the best research possible. I am well aware that photography, especially in the advertising sector, is not all glamour and romance and so I am pretty sure I know what I am getting myself into. I have goals in life, although I don't put them on a "top ten" list but they are simple ones. Right now, my top priority is to give all I can to pursuing photography and build a career for myself in the near future. Jeff: Thanks Jeff, I looked at the website but the photographs don't appeal to me. I think one thing important is to attend a school that more or less agrees with your vision and style or else you'll just be forced to conform to another mould. Plus, I think it's more of a fine art course, something I am not looking for. But thanks for your input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinblack Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Hi Charity, Assisting is a really good start. That's how I learned I absolutely did not want to be a commercial photographer! But seriously, if you are leaning more toward a fashion specialty and you plan to stay and work in the U.S., I would very seriously consider studying in NYC, because that's where the strongest fashion market is and that's where you will want to build your network. Good networking is important anywhere, but is particularly so in the fashion world, as is a general knowledge of and familiarity with the industry. Parsons School of Design and Fashion Institute are good options there. If you plan to be more of a generalist commercial photographer, then Brooks would be great. Best of luck to you, Justin Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted March 3, 2008 Author Share Posted March 3, 2008 Thank you very much Justin! I'll look into Parsons and see how I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinblack Posted March 3, 2008 Share Posted March 3, 2008 You might find this interesting: http://www.parsonsphotobook.com/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou_Meluso Posted March 4, 2008 Share Posted March 4, 2008 Justin writes: "For what it's worth, Brooks CAN provide an excellent photographic education IF the student (A) has natural talent, (B) is highly motivated and willing to work very hard both during and after school to make it work, and © if the student understands going in how hard it will be to set up a successful business after graduation. Many of their students become disillusioned because they went there with the wrong expectations and for the wrong reasons. They are attracted by the creative and romantic aspect, but are turned off by the hard work and discipline required to really stand out above the crowd, not to mention the difficult realities of the photography market after they graduate." Hello Charity: Justin's comments above could not be more relevant to your pursuit. Although he states this in relation to Brooks, These facts are true to any photography school or no school. Photography has a glamourous appeal that quickly wears thin when the realization of all the hard work sets in. No matter where you go, work harder than the next student, be more focused, more persistant. "school" doesn't end at the end of classes. Of course, as a Brooks Alummni (B.A, M.S. Brooks Achievement Award)I would say Brooks is an excellent school. I worked my but off but I loved it and I got my first in-house job right out of school. But remember, no school can teach you to be a photographer. The greatest lessons are self-taught. Brooks and other schools just give you the tools, the environment and guidance on the path. The sweat still comes from your brow. Best of luck too you in your career pursuits.....Lou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted March 4, 2008 Author Share Posted March 4, 2008 Yes I completely understand Louis, my parents and I have decided on Hallmark. Now if only the admissions guy would return my emails or call me like he said he would! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_kolkmann Posted March 10, 2008 Share Posted March 10, 2008 I know I am a little late in posting on this one. I am a 1996 Hallmark Alumni. It is a great school, they will teach you everything you need to know in a 10 month intensive program. The great thing is that you are learning all types of photography; commercial, portrait and business. I do wish they had a little more business training in the program. I have heard that they have changed that since I was going to school there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Hey Mark, thanks, I needed to hear that! In fact, I'm waiting for the interviewer to call me soon. I'm pretty excited about going so I hope it goes well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robert_hall2 Posted March 23, 2008 Share Posted March 23, 2008 Check out the Hallmark School in Turner Falls, Mass. I hear nothing but good things about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted March 24, 2008 Author Share Posted March 24, 2008 Yes, Robert, which is what this thread is about. But thanks anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_denman Posted April 26, 2008 Share Posted April 26, 2008 Charity, I am a current student at Hallmark. I cannot tell you how much I have developed as a photographer since enrolling in this program. Its tough but anyone who has the passion for their craft will make it. The program is divided 60% photography and 40% business and every bit of class time and exercises we go through are worth it. Since you have already been in photography much this you will already know so in the beginning it might appear slow to you. Everyone starts from ground zero, so Fstops and shutters speeds might not be a new concept to you but it picks up and you slowly begin to develop and grow as a photog. You absolutely made the right decision in pursuing Hallmark. We are in the final streatch of creating our final portfolio so my time here is almost done. I'm missing it already. Best of luck to you in your education and career. -Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charity_goh Posted April 26, 2008 Author Share Posted April 26, 2008 Hey thanks a lot Mark! It's really good to hear confirmation like that. It must be a really really good place to constantly receive raving reviews all the time. I have heard very few complaints about life there and those complaints are considered trivial. I have been officially accepted into Hallmark so I will enter with the September batch. I am very excited and really looking forward to it. Hope you do well with your final portfolio and other assignments. Leave me your website if you have one yeah? Thanks! Charity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
don_giovanni Posted April 17, 2009 Share Posted April 17, 2009 <p>So, are you still at the school?<br> How's it been so far...</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nolan_bailey Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 <p>Well, I am a graduate of Brooks from many years ago. Remember this, a school is what one makes of it. If one puts little into the experience, they will get little in return. No school can keep the passionate student from learning, and from being a success. I can't tell anyone what Brooks teaches today, but I can tell you that I learned what I needed to learn to be successful. Feel free to visit here to see what I did with the Brooks education that I received - http://www.firebirds.org/menu6/mnu6_p3.htm <br> In fact, a degree from a good school get's one's foot in the door for a job interview before others. From there on it is up to the graduate to avoid putting his or her foot in his or her mouth... One has to sell themselves, and their abilities....<br> Nolan B.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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