Switching to Mac

[sprouty]

<I>"It does suck having two boxes running though, one for the net and one for work."</I>

<P>

Eric, I've read this before from other people and have always been curious as to why. Tax purposes? Security?

[kelly_flanigan1]

The Mac is a more goober proof box if you surf the internet nude and vist weird sites; or if you dont use a firewall; or like to click on every email or try to install every freebie thing you see. With a PC one has to use some more protection; since crap is often written around breaching PC's more than Macs; because one can run 9 times the clickable crap. A Mac is like a sterile universe; a PC is more like an offroad thing; one can do and see more stuff; but if one doesnt have but sense ones computer may get hosed; become a zombie; or get bogged; or become a hidden FTP site for gamers.

[Brad_]

I think Kelley's analogy is especially great.

 

If your goal is to geek with computers/OS, and deal with bumps and detritus in the road towards getting

your image processing done, don an Indiana Jones felt fedora and get a PC. The journey is definitely the

reward.

 

On the other hand, if your mission is getting your image processing work done efficiently, with little

possibility of getting breached and hosed in the process and not needing to futz with hardware, OS,

viruses, etc, get a Mac. Unfortunately, there's no journey, glow, or war stories to tell your buddies - bleh...

[sprouty]

You guys are making me feel guilty...

[EricM]

Hi sp, any windows machine that is plugged into the net is vulnerable. One doesn't even need to go anywhere. All the good anti-virus programs let stuff through and it's just amazing how sluggish a windows box can become from just collecting email and visiting a few legit sites. Gaming and p2p activities are other things that should be avoided and opening firewall ports. With my net boxes over the years, i've never contracted any viruses but i play it safe. i only visit a few a sites, never download anything, never open attachments from strangers in email. Safe practices include using as little as possible from Microsoft. Do not use IE for the web, do not use Outlook for email, do not use a hotmail addy. If those three things ceased today by everyone, i reckon half the viruses and 80% of the spam would disappear with them. Use Firefox, Thunderbird, and gmail if you need a a free web mail based address. Comodo firewall is awesome and it's amazing to notice how much stuff is trying open and run in the background. So, to answer your question the long way, sp, all this stuff and effort is put into an old p4 that i don't really care about and sometimes when i have a few extra minutes, i'll do an acronis or ghost back up image and restore my email box just to get rid of spyware. My workstation never requires any maintenance and runs as quick and snappy as it does the day it had a fresh install. Using a separate box for the net is the cheapest virus/spyware/malware/rootkit protection for ones workstation. Even if i was a Mac user, i'd do this. Honest Mac users will fess up and state even their invincible machines don't run the way they used to when first bought. Unix based OS's do have an advantage, but still, there's stuff out there for them that they collect. Hopefully this an end to an era though. Google's OS is coming soon and online apps will be neat, imo. Electronic hard drives as well. I wouldn't spend too much money on a new 'old technology' machine today. I think things will be different within three years.

[EricM]

"On the other hand, if your mission is getting your image processing work done efficiently, with little possibility of getting breached and hosed in the process and not needing to futz with hardware, OS, viruses, etc, get a Mac."

 

Now that's a really expensive (lazy?) anti-virus approach. I like "futzing" with hardware. I like how can buy a xeon and 8 gigs of ram for the price of a couple Saturday nights on the town while the Mac guys have a couple morgage payments into it. But I've always been the kinda guy that fixes my own car, does my own handywork etc. I'd buy a toyota that i can change the plugs and cap on just because i refuse to be forced to have to take my bmw to the "bmw only" shop to install a bmw only mp3 player.

 

To each their own. One requires more time, one requires more money. Both systems make great prints.

[sprouty]

Thanks, definitely some stuff to think about.

[EricM]

i failed to mention in my before-coffee-spew this morning that the quality of Mac parts is superior to most generic PC stuff. i'm not sure if Mac still has a five year warranty on hard drives, but they used to. PC can't/wont offer anything over a year of course. This might be important to some

[paj]

I'm a Mac'er.

I used to be PC'er.

 

I don't have to mess with my computer now, I just get to do my art.

 

I am using a 24"iMac dual monitored to a 23" Apple Studio display, extended desktop

mode.

I can put one program on one monitor, one on the other...or put my main image on one

screen and do my work with the other monitor occupied by software.

 

I haven't had ANY of the issues with poor performance that Eric wants me to 'fess up to,

but the one windows machine I've had in the last 11 years got Trojaned in a 30 second

visit to the internet.

I still have the iBook I bought 9 years ago and it still runs like a champ. Most PC-ers

can't say that.

NONE of my Apples has ever "froze". Has NEVER had a virus or malware of any kind. Has

NEVER presented me with some grey box telling me I "can't do that".

My hard drive isn't all goobered up with anti-virus,patch-this patch-that's, programs

that support other programs or keep my computer all secure.

My hard drive just has the software on it that I want there. And I don't feel like I need a

special computer just for the internet.

 

My Apples JUST WORK, they render colours and images beautifully, and I get to spend

more of my time doing my photography and very little time "futzing" with the computer.

I have to work with MS pc's at work, so I know the diff.

 

I dunno....just read up on the steps windows people will tell you you have to go through

to get your PC to do something...or be invulnerable to viruses...or hook up to a periph.

Then look at the amount of typing a Mac user will do to tell you how to do the same

thing.

 

Most of us will tell you, "Plug it in, turn it on, go to work."

:)

 

p.s.

Price;

"You get what you pay for."

;)

 

good luck.

[kelly_flanigan1]

One of the older Rip's I am using now at work for printing tonight is run on NT 3.51 and was built around 1994 to 1996. Its so old it has a port for Apple Talk. Here we use the LAN or burn an eps file on a CD. The HDA has always been these past 12 to 14 years; and its never had any updates; or crashes. IT just works. Its the print engine that may bomb if the encoder gets some dust; or if the paper runs out.

[EricM]

sweet setup, raj. i almost went back to mac 18 months ago after they announced the new xeon macpro. almost :)

[EricM]

sorry, I mean paj. geez i wish PN allow us to edit mistakes.

[nick_r]

Interesting stuff. Knowing the Imac can drive an external monitor is nice, thanks. So it sounds like the reason to own a Mac is because they are more elegant and are less frustrating to get things done with... How long do you expect the Mac to last before it needs replacing? Do they remain viable for longer than a Windows box?

[eugene_scherba]

<p><i>Hi sp, any windows machine that is plugged into the net is vulnerable. One doesn't

even need to go anywhere. All the good anti-virus programs let stuff through and it's just

amazing how sluggish a windows box can become from just collecting email and visiting a

few legit sites... Safe practices include using as little as possible from Microsoft.</i></p>

 

<p>Haha, you've just answered the question of why some of us prefer Macs. How's

Vancouver going for you?</p>

[don_e]

"Why is it I've yet to see a "Switching to PC" thread on photonet?"

 

Think of the embarassment...after spending all that money...

 

 

For photo editing the os is irrelevant. Photo editing is pure application. I use Windows for Lightroom. I could use a Mac for Lightroom, but I had a pc and that's what I use.

 

If you use your photo editing box as your workaday machine too, then maybe it matters if it has i-this or win-that.

 

It takes about 3 or 4 years before some change in hw or sw makes me consider buying a new computer. These are usually 1300 dollars worth of Dell Optiplex.

 

The Mac probably has the better os because it is a *nix variant and if implemented well would be fine. If you mean the Desktop, they both suck because they are The Brand and cannot be removed and replaced, which means you are stuck with them no matter how annoying. I prefer the hard stuff, tho, so my other computer runs linux.

[paj]

Well,Nick, as I mentioned, my iBook is still chugging after 9 years.

 

I know folks who are still using "clamshells".

And even old Newtons.....and even the original "Macintosh".

 

there's a point where some of that is just simply esoterics....but it's fun to know the

hardware still goes.

Plenty people with Macs will tell you that they are just more sturdier.

 

And they are just so darned good looking!

LOL!

 

Don;

I'd love to run Linux.

But I worry that I am not savvy enough for that.

 

And I am with rEric on wishing we could edit posting mistakes.

;)

[Brad_]

>>> Think of the embarassment...after spending all that money...

 

Bogus and not supported... If people didn't think they made a great value proposition with a

Mac, they'd switch to windows in a couple years and post a thread here on that. Haven't seen

one yet...

[Ian Taylor]

I just went from 15 yrs of PCs to a MacBook Pro.

I won't be going back.

[EricM]

"Haha, you've just answered the question of why some of us prefer Macs. How's Vancouver going for you?"

 

Hey Eugene, how are you man? Van is great now that I'm not spending the grey wet seasons there these last couple years. But the streets are getting worse, I'm afraid. Homelessness is still growing by 30% a year and sucked into that vortex is the drug and mental health issues. A crying shame.

 

...but answered what question? It's no mystery as it's the number one reason why people buy Mac and is where marketing efforts are focused. Do I want to spend that kind of money to "be safe" and simultaneously have less options (and pay more for the few that there are) between performance upgrades that are available from the other side? Nope. It's no secret though, I like to geek out like others do and "futz" about once in awhile with PC's. It's gratifying, like doing your own car upgrades or repairs. After ten years, I almost considered 'going back' to Mac with the latest macpro as they've finally allowed pci slots and the ability to swap out most hardware. But then the accountant in me comes out. Will it make me more money? Will my pictures look better? Will I get my work done quicker? Until a 'yes' can be said for any of those, I'll more than likely just hang out with PC's.

 

"So it sounds like the reason to own a Mac is because they are more elegant and are less frustrating to get things done with... How long do you expect the Mac to last before it needs replacing? Do they remain viable for longer than a Windows box?"

 

Nick, they are more elegant to look at, very nice gear to have around your desk, beautiful furniture, and less maintenance if you use it for both web and work. The cases themselves on the inside are a design dream too. Very quiet, made of aluminum (for heat sink reasons) as opposed to pressed steel for the pc side. Mac's generally have a 5 year expectancy rate before things can start to go wrong. Most last a lot longer too of course. This can be found on the PC side with some boxes. Mac' use higher quality parts as well compared to the Dell/HP boxes and have a better warranty/support system. The gear itself is capable of video rendering and hence is more expensive than it needs to be for people like me just doing photoshop. The os is closed too, it's difficult/impossible to get in there for your benefit or for the teenagers that like to make those nasty viruses or for the spyware companies that want to know what you're up to. This will change though as market share for mac grows as well as being intel now.

 

I differentiate between work and the net and don't feel like I should expect one box to serve both these duties. My workstation stays off line and even use an anti-software that I can turn off. Can I buy a nice looking case for a PC? Yes. Can I go faster than a Mac while saving a third? Yes. It all depends what is important to you and there is a reason why people pay the extra for Mac. If you buy top quality PC parts and put it together your self, you can expect the same self life as a Mac. The unfair bashing PC gets is when cheap Dell's and HP's are bought and come bloated with spyware and then the kids run around on msn and start downloading anything from anywhere while playing p2p warcraft and then BANG, it stops, it needs cleaning, and then "PC's suck" is mumbled.

 

"Bogus and not supported... If people didn't think they made a great value proposition with a Mac, they'd switch to windows in a couple years and post a thread here on that. Haven't seen one yet..."

 

Brad, you're kidding me, right? half the flame threads on Mac vs. PC contain statements of "I used to have a mac but went pc with my next purchase". so that's not supported either. no, I'm not going to run off and link because if it were the case, as you say, Mac would have a stronger market share than they do instead of dwindling. Sure they're on the rebound, but ipod and laptop sales amongst the starbucks sippers will skew what we are actually discussing here.

 

Nick, if you can afford it and want a hassle free box for five years, go for it. Comparing apples to oranges, their off the shelf boxes contain superior parts compared to what can be bought from the local office supply store. Anything you want from windows can be run on it (word/excel). For me and many others though, we don't mind the trouble the net CAN bring in exchange for the flexibility of cheaper/faster upgrades. Honda's and Harley's...

 

 

 

 

 

[don_e]

"Bogus and not supported..."

 

It was a joke, Brad. Here's the smiley 8-)

[don_e]

Paj,

 

I've got a 10 year old Dell as my LAN's server (running Linux); been in service 24/7 for those 10 years except for normal downtime. I've replaced one hd and one cd player; the floppy is dead, and the power switch is tricky. I've also got a 15 year old Amiga A3000 (still in use for some web graphics work) that has never needed a replacement part.

 

I run 5 computers 24/7, the server, two Dell Optiplexen for Windows and two amd-based machines I've built for Linux. If I had a Mac-based client with a big enough contract to matter, I'd add a Mac to the LAN.

 

For photo editing, 95% of my time will be spent with my nose in Lightroom's GUI. I couldn't care less what OS or Desktop it is running on. A decent keyboard (I hoard old IBM 'clickers')and mouse are more important to me than the OS.

 

"Don; I'd love to run Linux. But I worry that I am not savvy enough for that."

 

It is not a good choice for photo editing. I do everything else in Linux.

[tri-x1]

The ONLY reason Mac don't get hammered by viruses is there are so few of them on line it's a waste of resources to attack them.

 

Had a Mac and a PC at work. About evey year I had to upgrade the oS and because I upgraded the OS I also had to get a new version of all the graphics programs. After spending several thousand dollars in this never-ending upgrade we reached the point where we needed an entirely new maching and new OS and new software. So I threw the Mac in the dumpster, added some memory and new screen to my PC and no more problems--thank you very much

 

If Ipod hadn't pulled Apple back from the financial abyss there would be no MAC computers today.

[don_e]

The ipod may have saved Apple, but it was Jobs who saved the Mac bringing NeXt with him as OSX. He understood the multi-user, multitasking, networked present at a time when Gates was extolling the office appliance (a combo of computer, telephone, printer, and fax machine, at least, as the future of computing). Anyone who ever had the pleasure of using MS's first web browser (a hideous addon to Word) knows how clueless they were. It is odd that MS got some DEC code, I think, for NT rather than developing Xenix which they owned. Window's dna is still single-user, standalone, no matter how much they tart it up.

 

Still, XP is a usable Windows OS. Something I can't say about the previous versions. I have no reason yet to buy Vista.

 

I'm setting up a new Dell Optiplex 755 at the moment. I like Optiplexes because they're whisper quiet and the interior is uncluttered, easy to add cards and ram, change drives etc. I put the money into fast hds, fast ram, and fast processor, and don't buy anything else. The only sw installed is Roxio and the unavoidable Google toolbar (which I ditch). It used to be that the first thing I'd do with a Dell is wipe the drive and reinstall just to clear off the crap. No longer necessary. I appreciated the network dialog when I booted it the first time. It searched for DHCP. I run a static ip. Dell brought up a dialog so that I could enter the data, so when I logged in I was on the LAN and on the net. Very nice, pretty much like in the Debian Linux install.

 

Optiplex is Dell's small/medium business cubicle box. I'm sure HP and others have a similar line. I think this type is fine for photo editing. Customize with faster hds, ram, and cpu.

 

For photo editing its a waste of money to buy a gamer's box or some stuffed to the gills multimedia gizmo.

 

I've nothing against Macs. If I were starting out I'd likely buy one, but I doubt I'll ditch my sw investment (some of which is not available for the Mac) and experience and start anew this late in the game.

[troy_taylor]

I would choose something with little more process power than the apps need but you might not need gamer power. The technology in the software changes so what works good today might be slow in the new versions 2 years from now.

 

This PC I built a few years ago had way more power than I needed at that time for the apps that I used. Not today the new version of the same kind of apps seem slow.

 

I really need something faster that most gamer PCs for rendering 3D animated movies. You might think of what other program you use for the kind of power you need.

[don_e]

I agree with Troy. It's the hardware that matters. A gamer's Geforce is unlikely to satisfy someone who runs a 3d rendering machine. A high end Quadro is better for that. Both are overkill for pushing pixels in an image editor where a 50$ card off the shelf at Radio Shack will satisfy, and where money is better spent on fast hard drives and ram.

 

As for software, the only aspect of an OS that would matter is how well video is integrated. Windows used to be a GUI running on Dos. X is also an addon in Linux and all unixlike OSs. Not a good solution for us.