jt991 Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I am close to owning an overhauled 1958 Varex lla (from a seller often recommended on PN) , with the shutter curtains stated as having been chemically restored. From what I have read elsewhere this is a way to seal any pin-holes, but I would welcome reassurance from other Exacta users whose camera has received the same treatment that "all's well" in this regard. Is there any cause for concern that it would have been better to replace the curtains rather than restore them in this manner ? Replacement is evidently still possible 50 years on, as I have been quoted 58.75 GBP by a reputable Company here in the UK. To get to the point. should I go ahead and use the camera with its restored curtains, or have them replaced a.s.a.p ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil_sutcliffe Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 I can't help you on your blind question, but I would be interested in details of the repairer you mention. I have a 127 Exakta with the f2,0 Xenon which I would like to get repaired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean_williams Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 It will always be better to replace curtains than to patch them. Properly patched curtains can be perfectly light tight, but they will not last as long as new curtains, simply because they are older. As far as "chemically restored", this is the first time I have heard this term, and I imagine it's a nice way of saying that the owner smeared some liquid fabric compound on them. If this is the case, I would not accept this as a restoration in any sense of the word. If this camera has the original Exakta curtains, it almost surely needs new ones by now, no matter what stop-gap has been applied. Just as an aside, I'm not speaking as someone making a guess about this. I've replaced shutter curtains in many of these cameras. The price you have been quoted comes to about $113 USD, (I'm in the US), which is not overly expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt991 Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 The one whose price I gave is Sendean (describing themselves as "London's Leading Camera and Repair Shop" and the url is www.sendeancameras.co.uk. . It might be worthwhile contacting Newton-Ellis (in Liverpool) as well, at www.newton- ellis.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_oleson Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 "Chemically restored"? First time I've heard that one. I would think that a proper chemical restoration of hardened rubber, returning it to its original softness, would be more labor intensive and costly than replacing the curtains even if the old rubber was not already cracked, and impossible if it was. Pinholes, by the way, are not pinholes. They are cracks in the rubber coating of the curtains. They look like pinholes on the negatives because the light passes between the fibers of the cloth breaking it up into little dots. A crack in a curtain is not likely to be healed very easily by any treatment that I can think of. On the other hand, I am obviously not familiar with the specific process they are using, so I'm ready to be educated on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 Typically I have found that using fixing shutters with shoepolish/liquid electrical tape/liquitex is a temporary thing; and the added life maybe alot or not so much. When too much liquid electrical tape is used; the cloth repair area is stiffer and thus the smoothness of the shutter's speed over the rollers can be less. In some cases it will stick to itself when the camera is not used much; ie when the repair area is rolled up on the roller/blinds. In the spped graphic era a field fix was shoe polish ; probably not a good thing for a 35mm shutter. I have never heard of the term "chemically restored" for shutter repair; but then I took the 1960's National camera repair course series. Maybe its a new regional/ebay term for shutter patching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richard_oleson Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I've done the 'liquid electrical tape' thing on a few cameras in a pinch, and it has worked fine... .but i sure wouldn't call something like that a 'restoration' and charge money for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt991 Posted February 9, 2008 Author Share Posted February 9, 2008 I must confess using the word "restored" as a generalisation when I should have said "overhauled". The seller actually wrote : <<"...camera was recently overhauled, therefore works properly, shutter speeds look appropriate. Glass on lens is clean, no fungus. A few light cleaning scratches on front coating are visible from rear end only. They will not affect pictures for sure. Shutter curtains were chemically restored, therefore are light tight.">> To sum up, this camera has been overhauled - only its shutter curtains restored. . . As to the theories/methods propounded in this thread regarding *chemical restoration* I shall ask the seller what materials were used. In a phone call today, a reputable UK repairer revealed that he uses chemical restoration, - but it does not involve liquid electrical tape, or shoe polish ! I hope to start a separate thread on the subject once I have more info.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean_williams Posted February 9, 2008 Share Posted February 9, 2008 I'd still be suspicious about this. If there was something wrong with the curtains that they need to be "restored", during an overhaul the first thing I would think of would be to replace them. If the curtains weren't replaced during a so called overhaul, just what was it that was overhauled? "Cleaning" doesn't count. That's simply cleaning. An overhaul is replacing defective parts and bringing the camera mechanicals into spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbarayan_prasanna Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 You can replace curtains by yourself at a fraction of the cost quoted by the reputable UK company. I just bought shutter curtain material from Japan for $18 including postage. It can make 4 to 5 Curtain sets. That amounts to less than $4 per set. I cut to size and made new curtains using rubber solution, like Pliobond. This material has fabric on both sides and a black latex layer sandwiched in between. I think it is superior to the one sided rubber coated fabric. The ribbon supplied along with the fabric is not braided. So I used braided ribbons from the neighborhood market. If you are interested in more details contact me by email. May be I could build a set of curtains for you ata nominal cost. Good luck. prasanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbarayan_prasanna Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Hey! Dean Williams and James Turner. You think that 58.x Pounds and $113 are "reasonable" for new curtains!!! I think you guys are being taken for a Royal ride! I learned to make curtains from Rick Olson's and Myles Upton's manuals on repair. Perhaps the quote is for other things combined, such as, labor for adjusting the timings etc. But if you can replace the curtains by yourself [it is no big deal, really] it should not cost even a tenth of what you have been quoted! Regards, best prasanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly_flanigan1 Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 In California with car repairs that use/still? was a law on the books about "rebuilt" versus "ReMANUFACTURED". Thus a used car alternator sold at Jimbobs Auto Parts as a "rebuilt" one required it to work. Thus the rebuilder would make the cases look abit clean; and jsut replace sometimes the bare minimum to make it work. Thus a bunk alternator might have say a broken diode or broken internal regulator or one of two brushes gone. They might just replace one of the two brushes if one brush just failed; and the other had a tad left. Or if they replaced a diode and the brushes are technically worn out but still work; they dont replace the brushes. The customer gets a used alternator; sometimes with a shiney case whoes usefull life might be a few months or many years!<BR><BR>For ReMANUFACTURED the law is/was? that the cars used part had to be completely gone over; worn items replaced; a general increase in the useable lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dean_williams Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Subbarayan Prasanna, the price is not for the curtains alone. The camera must be completely disassembled, curtains replaced, camera reassembled, adjusted and tested. Do you think the camera repairman works for free? Would you replace the curtains in three cameras for just $15, all labor included? In just how many cameras have you replaced the curtains? One? Two? Five? 100? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subbarayan_prasanna Posted February 10, 2008 Share Posted February 10, 2008 Sorry! Dean Williams, I agree that if the cost is for all those things together, it is reasonable. I got the impression that it was for only the curtains from James Turner's email, as he said it would be bought "overhauled" . Of course, the competition is also absent these days. There are very few competent workmen. Regards, prasanna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjun_mehra Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I believe "chemical restoration" of curtains simply refers to using some sort of special liquid adhesive to cover up any pinholes one might have developed. From what I understand, even if done right (which it isn't in every case), the method is quite inferior to actually replacing curtains, and is better employed as a temporary measure. Not only might curtains improperly restored with this technique end up with "thick" patches that cause problems with shutter-speeds and internal functioning of the camera, but curtains that require them in the first place may be getting ready to go bad in other spots, as well. Whether or not you ought to buy this camera depends on more than just the condition of the curtains, including on how for much it's being offerred to you. Keep in mind, "crappy camera + repair" may well amount to more than "good camera," but even a good one (of this age) might need some more minor work. It's a matter of balancing cost and condition. Hell, you may pick up a hunk of junk just because it comes with some grade-A glass. *You're talking about a VXIIa, which used "rubberized" shutter curtains, the rubber of which often dried with age, slowing speeds and causing pinholes. If an example of such a camera is giving you real trouble, and you want to restore it as well as possible, you really do need new curtains and not just patched-up old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gejza_dunay1 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I believe that "shutter curtains chemically restored" was introduced by me in my ebay auctions It is process when I dissasemble camera, take out shutter curtains, in several chemical bath I remove the old "rubber like" layer. Thank I am giving there several /2-3/ new layers of rubber like matter again. I believe it is as good as original curtains - if done properly but from time point of view I have 15 years old cameras with no problem. Replacing shutter curtains is not as easy. Look for example on Praktina - do you know how complicate is the shutter curtain? Zenit and Praktica have not identical wide, etc. You cannot use the shutter cloth sold in big pieces because it is too thick. Original shutter curtains /for example for Exakta you can use those for praktica/ are out. I purchased long ago roll of 35mm cutrain that whas good and I could cut from it wide as I needed /brw, do you not know where to purchase something like that/ but you still need open the metal ends put on new curtains. This can not be done perfectly. Ok, by 35 mm camera I can do it that nobody notice, but by 6x6 camera it begin to be problem. I simple do not have machine used in factory that bent the metal like it was original. So shutter curtains chemically restored is not "painting" it /although in some situation when just few mini holes are present I am doing it as well, because problem is with cost of repairs it is very labor intense/ but making totally new layer that i believe is better in quality than was original made 50 years ago. Best regards, cupog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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