Do you print aRGB files, and if so, where?

[jennifer valencia]

hello all,

recently I've found that no average photo labs near me print photos with

embedded Adobe RGB color profile; they all require sRGB. Even some of my

favorite on-line places require sRGB.

 

Do YOU print aRGB from a commercial lab and/or store? If so, what is it? Or

do you just go with sRGB?

 

thanks!

Jennifer

[bill_clark___minnetonka_mi]

Here is a clip from WHCC:

 

A.

You can send files in any colorspace, however it is very important that you embed the

color profile you are using, especially if it isn't sRGB. sRGB is this easiest camera to print

workflow if you are not familar with color management. As long as you embed the color

profile in your image, you can send files in any colorspace.

 

You can check this and more FAQ's here:

 

http://www.whcc.com/faq.htm

 

It's the lab I use and they do a quality job with quick service and good prices.

 

Best!

[ellis_vener_photography]

I have no idea what an aRGB file is.

 

I've printed Adobe RGB(1998) files with no problem -- but they are first converted (Convert

NOT Assign) to the profile for the printer that is printing the work.

[jennifer valencia]

By aRGB I meant Adobe RGB 1998..sorry...I was trying to be "cool" and shorten it. :)

 

J

[jennifer valencia]

Ellis, I'm still learning about color. If you printed two files: One that started sRGB and was converted to the printer's profile, and one that started Adobe RGB and was converted to the printer's profile, how different do the finished prints actually look?

 

Would you be able to look at them and in 1 second say, "that one is obviously the sRGB file?" Do you think the average digicam user could see it right away?

 

OF course I can do that experiment myself by sending prints to a lab, and probably will, but I was hoping to get some insight before I get the pics back. :)

 

thanks,

Jennifer

[patricklavoie]

Ellis_

aRGB seem to be the new shorcut name for Adobe RGB 1998..that make sense since nobody use Standard RGB neither but sRGB.

 

I work exclusively in aRGB (or ProPhoto..but lets not complicated thing here) but when (rarely since i have 2 epson printers) send image to be print outside my place i convert it to sRGB; no problem for all the minilab out there.

[patricklavoie]

Jennifer_

yes i would be hable to tell you the one in aRGB vs sRGB when printed IF the operator print them WHITOUT color correction AND without converting the color profile.

 

the aRGB will look darker and duller vs the sRGB, IF you have them together. If you only have the aRGB print it will just seem less *vivid* let say. i dont think a normal user could see it, but i always assume that my work coul be see by the best pro out there...so if this imaginary pro could see the difference, it enough for me to work harder.

 

People tend to use the *normal* people as a reference..i prefer to use the best pro as a reference myself, its for me a obligation to give better quality.

 

Its really important to ask the oprerator to

 

1_DONT CONVERT TO ANOTHER COLOR SPACE

 

2_DONT APPLY ANY COLOR CORECTION

 

when you are doing test or send your image to be print..so you can experiment and understand what could be the future problem.

[jacopo_brembati]

Jennifer, <br>

if your monitor is profiled, or it give you a good color rendition, my suggestion is not to search for adobe 1998 labs, but for a lab that provides color profiles.

[inspiration point studio]

There are quite a number of erroneous posts here. Please allow me to sort this out for you.

 

First, sRGB and Adobe RGB are the native color space you work under. Most people prefer to use Adobe RGB because it has a wider gamut space, it contains more color. There are other color space with wider gamut, but Adobe RGB is probably the most popular one. Once you have picked a default color space to work with, you should use it across the board on all your master image files.

 

When you print your file through an online service, you have to ask them how they would like the file to be color managed. Outfits like mpix want it in sRGB. That means you CONVERT your AdobeRGB file to a sRGB space and send them the new print file. You keep your original master file in the default Adobe RGB space with no changes. You'll notice when you do the Adobe RGB to sRGB conversion, you will find very little color change on the monitor. The conversion is usually unperceptable, but if you look at the histogram, you will see changes in the histogram shape, and you'll often find clipping on one or both ends of the histogram, showing you've lost data due to the smaller sRGB gamut. If you don't want to have any data loss due to conversion, you can play with the level adjustment tool before the conversion to "tighten up" the histogram (make it narrower).

 

Other companies like westcoastimaging.com does not care what kind of color space you send them, they will do the conversion for you, no different from you printing your file on your printer.

 

In the above two cases, the online companies carry out a color conversion for you as part of their workflow, from native color space embedded in the image (e.g. sRGB for mpix, sRGB/AdobeRGB or whatever for WC Imaging)to the printer color profile before printing the image. Sometimes the companies may choose to do some color tweaking for you as part of their service.

 

If you are very sure about your color management skill, you can choose an online service that does not do any color conversion for you and print your file as is. adoramapix.com allows you to print files unmanaged. The important thing is you have to know their printer profile (their printer ICC profile is available online). After you prepare your file image, you have to CONVERT the file from its native color space (Adobe RGB or sRGB or whatever) to the printer color profile. Then you send them the file and tell the company not to color manage the files.

 

One helpful tool to use is the Photoshop Soft Proofing feature. When your file is in its default color space, you can use the soft proofing feature to simulate what the print will look like on your monitor, you can also look for areas that are out of gamut so you can fix it ahead of time. The mpix profile using Kodak Endura paper is quite good, I seldom see out of gamut problems. The soft proofing tool is also handy to compare the printer gamut capability from different companies, for example, you can compare mpix's printer profile and West Coast Imaging's profile and see which one can handle your file the best.

[inspiration point studio]

I meant to say adoramapix printer profile using Kodak Endura paper is quite good. mpix doesn't give out printer profile.

 

You can essentially use different online printing services, you just have to know what their color management work flow is and give them the appropriate image file.

[jennifer valencia]

Michael, thanks so much for your detailed reply! I'm starting to understand this now. I will try out a few prints at West Coast Imaging. I've used Adorama before, but never ventured into the territory of using their printer profile, so maybe I'll give that a try. It's kind of exciting to try this and learn something new!

 

Jennifer

[digitaldog]

>Ellis_ aRGB seem to be the new shorcut name for Adobe RGB 1998..that make sense

since nobody use Standard RGB neither but sRGB.

 

Well everyone please stop! Its called Adobe RGB (1998) and nothing else.

 

As the Chinese proverb says: The first step towards genius is calling things by their proper

name.

 

As for what the various working space bring to the party:

 

http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/pdfs/phscs2ip_colspace.pdf

[digitaldog]

>Most people prefer to use Adobe RGB because it has a wider gamut space, it contains

more color.

 

Actually both contain the same amount of color, 16.7 million in 24 bit.

 

The scale is different. R0/G255/B0 is a different color in sRGB than Adobe RGB (1998) and

fall in different locations within human vision. But there aren't 'more colors' in one.

 

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200509_rodneycm.pdf

 

http://www.ppmag.com/reviews/200510_rodneycm.pdf

[ellis_vener_photography]

"Would you be able to look at them and in 1 second say, "that one is obviously the sRGB file?" Do you think the average digicam user could see it right away?"

 

It depends...

 

On the subject -does it contain even mildly saturated colors that are clipped by the small sRGB gamut but not by the larger Adobe RGB(1998) gamut?

 

On the printer, the media being used to print on, and the quality oif the profile.

 

The other problem is that before too long, displays and monitors (printers are already there) will have gamuts larer than the oldeRGB standard. The sRGB color space was established back in the late 1980s or early 1980s for the monitor technology that was available then. We've gone pastthat now. Microsoft adopted it as a worst case /lowest common denominator default so that you could always ee some color on a near death display / monitor even in the worst case (i.e., bright ambient viewing environment with lots of glare).

 

Michael's long post is very good but he left out one crucial step: when preparing the file to send to the lab make a duplicate of your master file and convert the dupe not the master.

 

Andrew's posts, as always, are also very good advice.