When Things Go Wrong. What Would You do?

[StuartMoxham]

Learn from this experience make contracts with future clients and never delete the images. You don't have to show all of the images but if you have them backed up if or when this situation happens you will be able to show the client the images and explain what you did not like about them.

[fotografz]

My contract clearly states in plain English that I make all decisions as to what images are

taken, what images are processed, and what images are printed for their album (if they select

a package with an album). If they don't agree, or trust me to get the job done, then we do

not have a basis for a professional relationship.

 

NO contract is like working the high-wire without a net. Don't need it until that one time that

you do.

[david_schilling___chicago_]

Apperrently they have 6 specific images that they are looking for. Obviously, these are important to them for whatever their reasons. Why not invite them to the studio and see if you can't find the images in question? Or, find out what it is about the images that makes them important, it's possible to do some things creatively in photoshop that might make them happy. It's not uncommon for clients to see a flash and swear that the photographer took a phot when it was actually a guest taking the shot with a P/S camera. If they have an image of you taking a picture then it's easy enuff to find that that approximate time period and search for the image. Since they love their photos and you established a good pro relationship with the couple this shouldn't become some big legal hurdle....see if you can turn this into a "win-win" situation rather than looking for consensual validation on what you think is fair or the "right" thing to do. Quoting your contract should be your last line of defense and rarely ends with warm feelings on anyone's part.

[john_h.1]

"I do not do contracts and I like it that way. My bother is the Lawyer and that is his world. I am the Photographer."

 

I have bitter news for you Art. Very bitter news. You DO do contracts. You entered in to one when you agreed to shoot the wedding. You couldn't be bothered to reduce it to writing out of some philosphical notion that you are merely an artist. You are now entangled in a contract dispute. You are waaaaay in the world of contracts. I have more bitter news. You are also a businessman. A businessman who will inevitably encounter more unreasonable clients in the future.

 

Good luck with that.

 

P.S. Is the matter really "put to bed" or are you just saying that?

[hooman_b]

I saw your post that you had closed the situation - how did it end?

[matt_needham]

Have your lawyer brother write you up a good contract. Get people to sign it, and get on with being an artist. You'll get dragged into many more legal issues without a contract than with one.

[mark saunders]

In the photos they apparently have of you taking photos, how can they know what you were taking a photo of at that moment?? My point being, how can a photo of you shooting show exactly what you were shooting, and therefore how can they tell you missed it?

[neilambrose]

<p><em>In the photos they apparently have of you taking photos, how can they know what you were taking a photo of at that moment?? My point being, how can a photo of you shooting show exactly what you were shooting, and therefore how can they tell you missed it?</em></p>

 

<p>Exactly - I was wondering if someone would point this out.</p>

 

<p>Someone may frame pictures with the camera to their eye; if they don't like what they see they put the camera down. If the exposure reading is too low they put the camera down. If the battery warning light is flashing they put the camera down. If the card is full they put the camera down. Any of these occasions could look like someone is taking a shot when they're not. Camera to the eye means nothing.</p>

 

<p>Irrespective of which, you may point the camera at someone but how can a photo of you in action determine whether you're taking a portrait of someone in front of you, or a detail shot of their dress, or a wide shot of the room, or a candid shot of the people behind them, or a really long shot over their heads of something right at the back? </p>

[lou korell]

I think you have a lot of good answers and a few I wouldn't suggest, like giving them any money back. Just because you are in someone else's photo shown taking a picture it doesn't mean you actually took the shot or it was even a good one. I don't think it is reasonable to expect you to hand over shots which are not acceptible.

But I do have a couple of suggestions for the future:

Get a contract. Otherwise you are liable for anything and everything anyone wants to suggest.

Then, when you edit, create a rejects folder and keep them on a disk in case they were important to somebody.

No more of those issues should occur if you do those simple things.

Best of luck,

 

Lou

[el_fang]

<i>There is no contract with this couple or any couple. I do not do contracts and I like it that way. My bother is the Lawyer and that is his world. I am the Photographer.</i>

<p>There's your first mistake.</p>

[johnmottershaw]

If you provide everything that you agreed to, in terms of quantity and subject matter and the

couple are pleased with what they have, then that should be the end of it. They have no

further rights to demand more than that, whether you took further pictures or not.

 

For future reference, it's worth renumbering the pictures to make the edited ones sequential

and also always back up the original shoot before editing. And as for the contract.....

[savagesax]

Get a contract made. Put your lawyer brother to work and write one up. Since there is no contract, you are now at the judges mercy. Now the issue becomes "He said, she said," and when the judge asks you if you promised all of the photos and you say no, I'll gives you odds 10 to 1 the bride will say the photographer promised ALL of the photo's. There's no telling which way the judgement will end up.

 

Lets face it, they will never refer you again, but the key here is to settle peacefully so your fine reputation stands at the highest professional level. Offer her $100 or something to end this in a happy way. Perhaps offer her a future family portrait sitting as this shows no animosity on your part. Good luck, let us know how things turn out.

[KenPapai]

I had this exact talk with a potential client yesterday.

 

As the photographer you have the absolute right to edit your own work provided you fulfill the photo job being requested. Simply explain that no one gets 100% of the shots right -- not Francis Ford Coppola, Marc Williams, or Art Tatum. Some may bet 85% of more right but never 100%.

 

Some people blink. Some people move. Sometimes a flash reflect off of something unwanted and ruins the image. I think you know the drill Art, so next time at least have a one page contract and explain to potential clients that nobody's perfect an no one's gonna see my bad shots.

[surfidaho]

I do have a contract, but there's nothing in it about missed shots. I'm thinking about writing that part in.

 

I rename all my pictures to yymmdd_hhmmss for two reasons:

 

1. It keeps me sane in case folders get mixed up.

 

2. Customers can never tell if a picture is "Missing" by the sequence number.

 

There will always be "petty" customers. Protect yourself as much as you can.

[michaelchristensen]

I know of no phototographer who gives each and every photo to the client. We all cut, edit, mix and match and present "x" number of photos for "x" price. Unless it was specified in writing that specific poses and specific people be photogrpahed .. you are okay.

 

I don't take a picture every time the camera is to my eye. I may be composing and hitting the shutter button to pre-focus .. and the camera may look like I'm taking a picture, but until the scene is right I don't trigger the shutter. And since, digital pictures frequently have focus errors depending on how the camera is set, each and every photo is not a keeper ..that's why we all "over-shoot" with film and digital .. to make sure the important ones are there. But we don't give each and every shot to the client. I can't believe they have identified 6 photo shooting situations on which to base such a complaint .. and I don't give a damn what some sideline amatuer thinks he saw me photographing .. this is plain silly.

 

I'd offer them nothing but an apology that those photos don't exist and explain that you have met your contract with them. If they want to litigate, and some people are like this .. then this is little you can or should do. They remind me of people who go into a fancy restaurant, eat all the food they ordered, and then complain that it didn't taste as good as they thought was advertised ... yeah, right!