How is a K100D better than a K10D

[michael_kuhne]

If you may be getting some compact lenses, finding a good deal on the K100D Super is really worth consideration. I like hiking about and riding my bike in warm weather. I have done so with larger camera bodies and a shoulder strap, and I have more recently done so with a compact ensemble not requiring the shoulder strap. So I have found a compact design to be advantageous for some uses.

 

If going only with substantial size lenses and little interest in compact carrying, by all means, a good deal on the fine K10D and a fine lens like the Pentax 16-45mm would be very satisfying. Especially if also planning to shoot in RAW much of the time.

[dan_lenski]

>> K100D, super or not, is a nice camera, don't get me wrong. And I absolutely understand that, for some people, even the small difference in price is significant. But for those fortunate enough to be able to consider the purchase of a K10D right now, it's probably THE best deal on the planet. In my opinion, having used them both, unless you really like having a slightly smaller camera, and again, aside from the difference in price, there is really NO reason not to buy the K10D.

 

That's what it came down to for me. I thought I would be happy with the K100D, which is cheaper and slighter better than the Nikon D40 in my opinion.

 

But then I realized that for not TOO much more money ($150), I could get the K10D, which is waaaay better than the D40X and the XTi, and seems about on par with the D80 or the 30D which cost a bit more. I agree that it is the best deal on the planet :-)

 

>> Another thing to like about the K100D Super, this camera will take AA or AA rechargeable NiMh batteries, which are widely available and light weight.

 

AA batteries are definitely available everywhere, but they are *not* light weight. 4 AA batteries are heavier than one K10D battery, and the K10D battery lasts longer according to most reviews. One D-Li50 battery weighs 76g, whereas 4 NiMH AA batteries weigh about 4×32g=128g.

 

So a spare K10D battery is lighter than spare AA batteries for the K100D. And less "fiddly" too. My last camera used AA's, and while I see the advantages of them, they're a pain to keep taking in and out of the camera and the charger.

 

If you go K100D, I would recommend getting rechargeable CR-V3 batteries. These look like two AA batteries stuck together, and they will work in most AA cameras (the K100D is explicitly designed for it!). They are Li-Ion based, last about twice as long as NiMH AA batteries, are lighter, and you can get a pair with a charger for ~$15 on eBay.

[jaycai]

Um, I just got a K100D Super recently, and the manual says to NOT use rechargeable CR-V3 batteries. It was NOT designed for it. It can take non-rechargeable CRV3 and lithium AA batteries, along with AA alkaline and NiMH. The only rechargeable batteries it takes are NiMH (and probably alkalines, but they don't provide enough power per charge). The reason is rechargeable li-ion batteries have a higher operating voltage (3.7V versus 3.0V of non-rechargeables) that the K100D was designed for. I was thinking of going this route at first but the manual specifically said not to, I read it multiple times and carefuly because it would've been great since li-ion technology is better than NiMH. I suggest using low-discharge NiMH batteries (such as the Sanyo Eneloop), they can sit at room temperature longer than regular NiMH batteries without losing charge. The camera may not blow up if you use the higher voltage batteries, but it stresses the internal electronics more, and over time they may die prematurely, probably just after the 1yr warranty.

[andrew_ng7]

The K10D also has an optional grip that the K100D doesn't have.

 

I just got mine on ebay with an original Pentax battery as well as an IR remote for $214 CAD tax in and shipped.

 

Except for charging the battery in the body, I doubt that this grip will be coming off the camera. I like the feel with it on better. Allows my hand to feel more secure holding the camera while shooting on the move. The weight is negligible with both batteries.

[michael_kuhne]

I myself will probably wind up with a K10D or 20D, as I did with my full-size professional fim model. But I have found that even with the larger model's excellent pro features being my foremost favorite, I still value and use my compact models extensively.

[dan_lenski]

I stand corrected, I had not realized that K100D-Super could not handle the 7.2-7.4 V of a typical pair of RCR-V3 batteries. That's a real pity. Apparently there are some regulated CR-V3 rechargeables that keep the voltage under 6.5 V or so...

 

Here's a quite exhaustive article on battery choice for the K100D specifically (and digital cameras designed for AA/CR-V3 in general):

 

http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2007/07/li-ion-is-not-lithium-eg-li-mn-li-fe.html

[michael_kuhne]

But I like the AA's. If I get caught in a situation and run out of battery power with none charged up, in a pinch I can run into any store, even a gas station and pick some up.

[dan_lenski]

Well, you could certainly jury-rig a system to power a K10D off of AA batteries too... with a soldering iron and a few basic components.

 

I'd get a 5-cell holder (5*AA = 7.5 V), and run leads with alligator clips into the battery compartment.

 

Or you could rig up something very similar but more elegant that would attach to the DC power connector. You could have a sealed lead-acid brick in your backpack that would give you 1000s of shots, weighing 5-10 lbs. If I ever need such a thing, I'll make one :-)

[andrewg_ny]

For what it's worth, I've had trouble letting go of my lightweight *ist DS2 despite having the K10D for a year. I still use it when portability outweighs performance. It's pretty light and handy for family snaps with a FA28 on it. I've found that the AA's didn't bother me that much when I used it more regularly and I like that the same batteries are used in an external flash--however now that's it's used less frequently and I'm less diligent about keeping the batteries charged I find the self-discharge of NiMH AA's rather bothersome. Even if the AA's aren't dead when I pick up the DS2 they're going to be depleted such that the AF is slower, etc. The K10D's Li-ion is much better in this regard.

 

I am a fan of smaller & lighter--even though I love the feel and ergonomics of the K10D, I would sure like to see a new compact high-spec Pentax D-SLR-- with pentaprism viewfinder (important) and some of the other handling improvements that K10D has (why don't single e-dial Pentax D-SLR's offer P-Shift?) I also find direct ISO control essential.

[mountainvisions]

There is nothing debatable for comparing the K10D to K100D Super.

 

However, if you think it is, then the K100D Super is a better camera for you. Not saying that to be mean, are a wise hiney, but because it's most likely true.

 

Those who want or need the specs of a K10D will not be trying to figure out if the vast differences justify the slightly increased cost (which they do).

[shots worth sharing]

I love my (unsuper) k100d for all the reasons stated.

I'm also going to pick me up a k10d early next year for all the reasons stated (especially superior sealing and larger viewfinder.)

[a few images]

Another fly in the ointment..

 

I see lots of reference to how 'great' using AA's are..

 

The Pentax battery for the K10D is remarkable. You should ask around here but, honestly, I get 850 shots on average with one battery (many times I get more than that). All I bring is two fully charged batteries and I have a LOT of battery power. Shooting in RAW, enough to fill up seven 4MB SD cards..

 

When I'm in europe, I bring my hockey-puck sized converter and charge on the go. Never had a problem.

[mountainvisions]

I do, however, wish that the K10D had a AA grip option.

 

The reason, finding charging in the wilds or even on extended fast paced trips is tough. Plus it requires carrying the charger which isn't compact.

 

AA's have advantages, including cold weather performance (lithium AA). Although my experience with Li-Ion batteries for various digital cameras has been good in the cold.

 

But I think everyone would agree that K10D Li-ion is a good battery and pretty affordable compared to AAs. Initially I was worried we'd be stuck shelling out $50 for each battery but I've been pleasantly suprised and only spent $20 on 2 of them total.

[40mm]

The K10D has a larger buffer and its write speed is much faster. The K100D seems very lethargic in comparison.

[thebs]

Well, that was my blog article: <a href="http://thebs413.blogspot.com/2007/07/li-ion-is-not-lithium-eg-li-mn-li-fe.html ">Li-Ion is not Lithium</a>

<br><br>Since then, I've had to modify my preference as I've done more sports/action photo, including for Lithium AAs (see near the bottom of this post): <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00NNMs">Battery Question</a>

<br><br>The lack of an official battery grip is a shame in the K100D. In reality, a battery grip (like some of the unofficial ones) offers 12 x AA. At 12 x AA, you get the compounded, real-time current of 3 sets. As such, NiMH becomes very effective as it is able to deliver 3-4A+. Although it weighs a lot at the same time.

<br><br>Using Lithium AA (Energizer e2 Photo Lithium) brings the weight down, of course. It also keeps the current up on a single 4 x AA set, at 6V no less. Again, that's what I use for sports/action photography.

[owen_laprath]

I'd rather wait for the K2xx series.

The K10d seems to have some issues, particularly with plastic parts molding.

I have a K100d and could have been happy.

 

Instead I fell for more, ended up with 2 broken K10d bodies, and am really sick of that model now.

The first arrived dead in the box. Imagine that evening of joy trying out the new camera, which just made nice ... black pictures .... the light metering didn't work!

 

The I ordered the second K10d.

Turns out, Pentax also had some plastic molding defects that affected the K10d, and not only is there the known chip defect of certain serial numbers that cracks a corner of the bottom plate, but in my case the anti shake switch simply FELL OFF after only 4 months.

 

I wanted to know what else could be wrong with that model, so took it apart myself.

 

The antishake switch really is a lousy design, and was prone to snap.

Sorry Pentax, but you don't just build the pivot axle of a lever in plastic and stress it by attaching it to the pivot point with a screw!

I almost had it fixed, when a bout of hay-fever made me sneeze at the wrong moment. Silly me flinched and I snapped into a flexboard connector and ripped it.

Pentax REFUSES to just sell me the parts to fix that one!

They insist on me sending it in for more expensive repairs, so I gave the damned piece of junk away to a happy pal today, as it can still make pics, just no antishake and no monitor on the cam.

 

I am really considering switching systems altogether now, as the Pentax lens selection is also narrow compared to the improving competition.

But more importantly, I really don't care for the Pentax switch design used on the K10d - I'd rather have the known and reliable entities of micro-push-button-contacts and slide contacts as found on most Nikon and Olympus controls. I am even suspicious of the Canon power switch lever on their larger bodies of the 20D/30D/40D series now, just for seeing how flimsy the Pentax AS lever-switch is constructed and having it fall off on me!

 

Owen

[steve graham]

Owen - why haven't you returned your two bust K10D's to get them fixed or replaced under warranty?

 

On the high-ISO noise thing - does the K100D use the same sensor as the *istDS? I've never used a K100D but with my DS & K10D the noise level is noticeable lower on the K10D than on the DS.

[dan_lenski]

I'm pretty sure the K10D vs. K100D speed issue is the same as for the Nikon D40X vs. D40.

 

The K100D and Nikon D40 use 6.1 Mp APS-C sensors made by Sony (maybe the exact same one), which range from ISO 200 to 3200. The K10D and D40X use 10.1 Mp APS-C sensors made by Sony (again, maybe the same one), which range from ISO 100 to 1600. Do a side-by-side comparison on DPReview.com to see why I suspect they have the same sensors...

 

Ken Rockwell says he prefers the D40 to the D40X because the D40 defaults to ISO 200 while the D40X defaults to ISO 100. Basically, with the D40X you get 10 Mp instead of 6.1 Mp, but you also pay about $200 more and get less sensitivity... as well as no other notable features.

 

With the K10D vs. K100D, I think it's a whole different ballgame. The K10D offers many additional features, not just megapixels: sealed body, Li-Ion batteries, supersonic lens drive, larger buffer, backlit LED, better AF system, etc. etc. As a result, the K100D-Super and D40 are pretty competitive, but the K10D blows away the D40X.

[dan_lenski]

<p><i>... the known chip defect of certain serial numbers that cracks a corner of the bottom plate ...</i></p>

 

What serial numbers is that?

 

<p><i> I wanted to know what else could be wrong with that model, so took it apart myself.</i></p>

 

Brave! I just took apart my Olympus C740-UZ, but it's about 4 years old and worth only $50 or something if I destroy it...

 

<p><i> The antishake switch really is a lousy design, and was prone to snap. Sorry Pentax, but you don't just build the pivot axle of a lever in plastic and stress it by attaching it to the pivot point with a screw! I almost had it fixed, when a bout of hay-fever made me sneeze at the wrong moment. Silly me flinched and I snapped into a flexboard connector and ripped it. Pentax REFUSES to just sell me the parts to fix that one! They insist on me sending it in for more expensive repairs, so I gave the damned piece of junk away to a happy pal today, as it can still make pics, just no antishake and no monitor on the cam.</i></p>

 

Hmmm, that *is* worrying. The flippy-switches (shake reduction, power, focus mode, and metering mode) feel perfectly solid to me, as do the rest of the controls, but I don't relish the thought of them just snapping off after a few months.

[josphy]

Better for infrared photography. Possibly a little lower noise.

[owen_laprath]

<i>Dan Lenski, Dec 14, 2007; 05:21 p.m.

... the known chip defect of certain serial numbers that cracks a corner of the bottom plate ...

What serial numbers is that?</i><br><br>

 

The K10d cracked case problem was discussed extensively on a German group at www.digitalfotonetz.de<br>

As much as he is hated, Ricehigh picked up correctly on that one as well as a few posts on dpreview.com fori, if memory serves right :)

<br><br>

Point is, the serial numbers of cracked cases were NOT consistent, which is indeed pointing to worrisome and inconsistent QA at Pentax.

<br><br>

My first DOA model K10d was returned for full refund after raising some hell at newegg.com

<br><br>

I am NOT fond of the idea in any case to spend more money with higher end Pentax bodies.<br>

I think I would put more trust in el-cheapo mass market gear, rather than overly complex "top" line gear.<br>

Sorry, I was never a person of faith, and whatever "trust" I had in Pentax is plain gone.

<br><br>

BUT PLEASE NOTE, I REALLY LIKE MY K100D AND WISH I WOULD HAVE BOUGHT ONE OF THEM INSTEAD OF THAT DAMNED K10d AS A SECOND BODY FOR THAT ONE PHOTO-OP WHEN I NEEDED TWO BODIES FOR TWO LENS TYPES!

<br><br>

Owen

[michael_kuhne]

Owen, anything made by man can be prone to failure. The main reason I cast a jaundiced eye upon nuclear power plants. It is a fair probablity, if you opened up many highly rated camera bodies, some part or parts therein would be of questionable quality. I have seen this issue before, especially surprising in units costing much more $$$ with a high reputation.

 

In the case of the K10D, I find your assessment troubling, but I also note that many here have been happy with their K10D's reliability, and have put it through thousands of exposures over many months , and under many conditions. Even some professional photographers.