Arca Swiss - beware!

[thies.meincke]

After a long investigation I decided on a new Arca Swiss 6x9 FC.

This camera seemed to meet my needs, and I had found some

quite positive reviews on this camera.

 

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However, the result is a disaster.

 

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Do not expect an Arca Swiss is made in Swiss. All currently Arca "Swiss" cameras are made in France. Apparently there is no quality control anymore.

The two cameras I got were defective. One bellows had a light leak as

large as a 25c coin. The lens plates could not be attached without play.

The binocular mirror finder was stained, dirty, and scratched.

The zero setting of the vertical tilt of the rear standard was inaccurate (the spirit levels (!) and some tests showed that the standards were not parallel). The horizontal shift of the rear standard often got stucked.

 

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This disaster took 3 months of my time. Finally I returned all items

to the dealer for refund.

[ellis_vener_photography]

My first response is that your post reeks of nationalistic racisim.

The reason for the ARCA-SWISS factory moving just across the

border has to do with the fact that Switzerland isn't a paert of the

EU.. My second response is to wonder about the honesty of your

dealer. My third resonse is to try and get Martin Vogt from the

Arca factory in on the discussion.

[steven_s._miric]

Well, I have a story too. I bought my 6x9 F-line brand new at

Authorized Importer here in Canada. I took the camerea from the box

and it looked like it was "used". All kinds of small imperfections in

black finish. The knobs had small niks.All in all, the final quality

was less than I was expecting for a "Swiss Made Item". I wanted to be

sure, so I asked for another "new package". Sorry to say, but it was

the same. I decided to go with it. I used the camera for a year, did

nice work with it but finally decided to trade it in for Toyo VX 125.

Never felt sorry about it...

[ellis_vener_photography]

A light leak the size of a 25c coin (approximately an inch in

diameter) is bigger than the side of one of the sides of the

bellows. Do you really think a hole that big would escape even

an idiot's notice?

 

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If you bought a camera in the condition TM describes would you

spend three months trying to remedy that "disaster"? Don't you

think the dealer would be pretty upset and try to make his

customer as happy as possible as soon as possible? Even to

the point of inspecting the next camera that came in personally?

 

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My point is that something is very fishy here.

 

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Anecdotal offerings about automobiles don't prove a thing. They

are simply not relevent. it is like saying "A 1979 Ford LTD I once

owned really sucked" and therefore concluding that no company

based in the United States was capable of building a decent

fighter plane.

 

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So I think it is put up or shut time for Herr Meincke. I'd have the

same bulldog attitude if some one made the same ludicruous

claims about SINAR or Linhof.

[william_mitchell]

Late last year, I bought an AS 5x7 Metric from Robt White (UK). What

I received was a brand new camera;looked & "smelled" new! It was (and

is) just what I expected-- well made with precise movements.... it

sounds to me that Herr Meincke was sold a used camera, or one that

was damaged in transit. Anyway, I agree with Ellis: something's fishy!

BILL

[andreas_carl]

I also bought an Arca Swiss 6x9 last year and it was in perfect

condition. Everything I had expected from it! If I had received

a "new" binocular finder that is dirty, stained and scratched, it

wouldn't have taken me 3 months to return it. Besides, there are no

25cent coins in Germany. Perhaps Herr Meincke refers to a 50 Pfennig

Muenze???

 

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Should Arca Swiss change their name to Arca France? Should Toyota

change their name because they have plants in the US? I don't think

so.

[christopher_campbell2]

I just took delivery of a new Arca-Swiss 6x9 F-Metric/Orbix system

this past week, and find its fit and finish to be nothing less than

exquisite. This model rides on the 30 cm telescopic optical

bench, which consists of two dovetailed monorail sections that

slide in a long underlying extension bracket. As an example of

the care with which it has been made, the tolerance in

machining the fit between these upper and lower parts is so

good that when moving one in relation to the other, it almost

feels like something with viscous damping! Furthermore, the

obvious precision in manufacture is not just a question of

appearances, as the fundamentally superior design makes this

camera both more rigid and more exactingly flexible than my

prior Sinar f2. Any camera used hard enough by uncaring hands

will eventually feel bad and look worse, as the demo cameras at

the counter of a high volume dealer will inevitably show, but

based on my experience with Arca-Swiss and the users with

whom I have spoken, I would be astonished if there was, in fact,

a design or production problem at the factory.

[neil_poulsen1]

I bought a used Arca-Swiss, and you guessed it, it was used! But, it

was, and still is, in great shape. I'm very happy with my purchase.

[thies.meincke]

This story caused quite a stir. Both Arca and my dealer here in

Germany contacted me. There is one point that is my fault: the

binocular mirror finder was ok (told me the dealer), there was

was a protective transparent cover on the surface of the mirror

I had not removed. I had not seen anything like this, but that

could be true, so I apologize for this.

[armin_seeholzer]

Hi Neil

 

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If you got a used one then its an Arca maybe still from Swiss

production like mine 10 years old one so you can be happy with it for

your lifetime!

[steve_swinehart]

"You seem to be saying that you are saying that since the hands that

now do the final assembly of the cameras are French they must be

inferior to Swiss hands. The engineering and people in charge of the

company are still Swiss."

 

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Hate to say it Ellis, but, yes the "hands" making the product often

effect the quality of the product - that's a fact. More importantly,

is how the "hands" are motivated within the work place (money,

benefits, working conditions etc.) but, finally, it comes down to

Quality Control. If the QC processes are correct, then there should

be a very small percentage of bad or defective items that are

shipped. In the case of Arca, and the low volume they produce, the

defective product rate should approach zero.

 

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The final product certainly has to do with the engineers and owners

but they do not manufacture, assemble or QC the product. They can

only setup the manufacturing procedures and audit the process. Yes,

ultimately the management and owners are responsible for the product,

but that responsibility comes in the form of motivating the employees

to produce the best they can and auditing (QC) the product to provide

a standard to which inferior products do not get shipped.

 

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There is a factor of employee pride in the quality of the product

where the employee refuses to make a bad product because it is a

personal reflection on their integrity. Whether that pride resides

in the current manufacturing facility versus the old manufacturing

facility is something that cannot be proven one way or the other

through the Internet without an impartial observer who is intimately

familiar with both operations.

 

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But to state that the owners and engineers are the same, inferring

that somehow that translates into manufacturing quality, is naive or

a gross simplification of the manufacturing process to say the least.

[alpshiker]

I recently saw and handled a few Arca cameras in a fair and I was really impressed by the quality and impeccable

finition of these products. They had not much to want from my Toyo VX-125 on this regard. Unless Arca-Swiss

produces OEM versions in third world countries besides the genuine "swiss standard", and I don't think it is the case,

you should probably look towards your handler for the fault. Some dealers have a generous return policy or don't

bother to sell a demo for a new. Never thought of where the returned products would go? I recently was sold a

"new" video camera that had still some of the gift wrapping paper from the previous owner and numerous use

marks. It returned the store almost instantaneously!

[qtluong]

<i> Please do not speculate about the connection

between the move of the factory to France and the decline

in QC. My understanding is that AC used to be a very small

company and had to expend recently to meet the demand for

their products. There are rumors that QC has declined, no hard

facts to the best of my knowledge. I asked AC to participate in

this discussion, let's wait and see.</i>

<b>Moderator</b>

 

[sandy_sorlien]

My new Arca 6x9 FC Metric arrived an hour ago from Robert White in UK,

and it is a beautiful little thing. Brand spanking new, even to the

leather smell of the bellows. The only flaw I notice is a small ding

on the lens board, affects nothing and doesn't show when the lens is

on. I'm still putting it together, but just wanted to add my two cents

before rumors start spreading that Arcas are anything less than well-

made beauties. I'm deliriously happy so far!

[robert_pellegrino]

I too recieved a brand-new and in perfect condition (Arca-Swiss 6x9

Metric)from Robert White about 8 months ago. I'm not sure if it is of

Swiss or French manufacture, but both countries have a reputation for

high quality products. As stated before with regard to damaged or

defective "NEW" Arca products, somthing is not quite right here.

Bob P.

[customer_support]

Dear Mr. Meinecke and Contributors

 

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ARCA-SWISS has investigated this case carefully to get accurate information. Because of the information we have now, we have

hesitated to respond to such a post.

 

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�Do not expect an Arca Swiss is made in Swiss. All currently Arca "Swiss" cameras are made in France.�

�Apparently there is no quality control anymore. �

 

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Approximately 50% of an ARCA-SWISS camera is made in Switzerland. 30% of our Employees in France are Swiss. ARCA-SWISS

did open its new Company in France two Years ago! Obviously we have not moved recently, and demo products are from France.

ARCA-SWISS was aware that this move would be monitored closely, therefore we doubled our quality control. We are proud, that we

have been able to increase our quality over our old �Swiss Standards� considerably.

Last Year, approx. 10 negative posts about our leading Monoball® tripod heads and its quality where posted after a client revealed

that they where delivered from France. Suddenly they disappeared? This post starts with France again�..

 

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We do not think it is up to us to reveal where the Photo Industry is manufacturing (Zeiss Germany, Rollei, Hasselblad, Canon,

Nikon, you name it). ARCA-SWISS is a registered Trade Mark and �Made in Switzerland� is not being used.

If you decide on an ARCA-SWISS, you do decide on our superior Design, Quality, and Finish. As long as our products carry the ARCA-

SWISS brand name, you can count on above qualities which made and makes ARCA-SWISS famous.

 

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�The two cameras I got were defective. One bellows had a light leak as large as a 25c coin.�

There was only one camera. ARCA-SWISS controls every single Leather bellows at different stages due to pinholes (Hair) etc.. The

bellows on your camera was stripped off the bellows frame by abuse.

 

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�The lens plates could not be attached without play." Correct. �The binocular mirror finder was stained, dirty, and scratched. �

The protective plastic foil that covers our coated, optical mirror was not removed. (although the Dealer informed Mr. Meinecke to

do so)

 

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�The horizontal shift of the rear standard often got stucked.� ,�The zero setting of the vertical tilt of the rear standard was

inaccurate (the spirit levels (!) and some tests showed that the standards were not parallel). �

According to Your Fax, tests performed with the 45mm Apo Grandagon which is one of the most critical lenses �showed perfect

results from the center to the boarder of the image circle�. (camera levelled !) Your XL 80mm with displacements was

noticeably less sharp than your medium format equipment if enlarged 5 times. The test with the Apo Grandagon 45mm proves the

perfect alignement of the camera. ARCA-SWISS takes no responsibility for Lenses.

 

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�This disaster took 3 months of my time. Finally I returned all items to the dealer for refund.�

You received your camera in December; beginning of February we have been asked to upgrade your camera with orbix and fixed

your stripped bellows for free. We have informed your Dealer about the delay and you have agreed to wait for the upgrade. Mr.

Meinecke did never contact ARCA-SWISS, although e-mail address, phone numbers etc, are on our 3 Year Warranty Card.,

Catalogues etc.

 

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Our suggestion for future posts: Try to avoid blaming a Country, a Company, a Product or even a Person without having profound

knowledge.

 

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Regards,

 

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ARCA-SWISS International

Martin Vogt

[fw1]

Herr Vogt,

 

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You may be right on all the facts, but a little more humility towards

your customers and potential customers would, I suspect, work in your

favour. I have thought long and hard about buying an Arca-Swiss, but

the reaction and difficulty I have experienced in obtaining normal

information from your company I have found unusual! (Just so it is

clear, I now work for a Swiss company, with many of my colleagues

living in Switzerland, France and Germany). Best regards

[thies.meincke]

A final statement in response to Arca's:

 

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1) I did not start the Monoball discussion, nor did I contribute to

that discussion.

 

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2) I got a camera in December. It was defective (both the defects were

confirmed) and was returned.

In March I got a replacement. I cannot say if it is the same

or another one.

 

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3) The bellows was defective when I opened the box. And certainly

I did not "abuse" it. This assertion is insolent.

 

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4) "The test with the Apo Grandagon 45mm proves the

perfect alignement of the camera." Wrong. I proved that

must not rely on the zero settings. I must align the

camera with the spirit levels because of the play of

the tilt mechanism of the rear standard.

 

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5) I had contacted my dealer in Germany. I do not have

a contract with Arca, I have a contract with the dealer. I

will centainly not ask Arca for a permit to publish my Arca

experience.

[marcus_schwier]

i am a very satisfied owner of a 4x5" f metric from arca. the problem

of the viewerfoil it is soved about some seconds to remove. the arca

worked under all conditions ( minus 30 C ). Ive never had any

problems. next days i ll receive another one 6x9 metric and i trust

it will be in the same shpe like the one i own.

i m very happy with my arca and the results and i dont want to change.

[matt_sampson]

Dear Herr Meincke

My experience, through working in photographic retail supplying among

other things Arca cameras, leads me to be able to say, beyond a

shadow of a doubt that you were sold, possibly unknowingly, a camera

of dubious origin. It could not have been new. Arca Swiss quality

control is of the highest standard. If you had seen as many new

Arcas as I have you would agree with me. Sadly I know that you will

never be able to for one reason or another. I suspect that the damage

could have happened at your dealer without their knowledge. People

can be clumsy sometimes when they are examining things. Were you

knowingly sold an ''ex demo'' camera? This could be the cause of the

problem. Ex demo equipment is often a bargain and much sought after

but should always carry the same warranty as if it were new. It

sounds as though you have benefited from such a warranty and I hope

that you are eventually satisfied with the outcome. Arca Swiss

cameras are a fine product your experience is unfortunate and

extremely unusual.

 

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Matt Sampson.

[roger_e._oppenheimer]

I don't know if anyone is tabulating the responses, but here's mine:

I bought an A/S FC 6x9 about three months ago from Robert White, and

all I can say is WOW! The camera is flawless, and the service both

pre and post sale from Robert White is nothing short of fantastic.

 

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Would I get another A/S? You bet I would!

[andreas_carl]

Herr Meincke, I believe your experience is very unusual. Sounds to me

like you got a "lemon" for one reason or another. Arca Swiss has a

reputation of producing extremely fine and precise cameras. I have

the feeling that the problem is more with the dealer than the

manufacturer in your case. Herzliche Gruesse!!!

[anthony_harrison]

I agree with those posters who say Herr Meincke's problems do not

suggest anything fundamentally wrong with Arca cameras, terrific

pieces of kit, beautifully made. I'm more concerned about those who

mock him for not spotting the plastic covering - I remember my own

difficulty in working out how to load my first Polaroid back,

embarrassing to think about now... And there's some over-reaction too

from those who absurdly accuse Meincke of nationalist racism and

mental dwarfhood. Good grief! Let's keep a sense of proportion here.

Viele Grusse, Thies...

[dave_anton]

I know this response is posted late but I am disappointed to see Mr.

Vogt's response to a client that has recently purchased his product,

whatever the circumstance. Although I can appreciate Mr. Vogt's list

of disclaimers attached to his response, the intonation chosen for his

response is very surprising.

 

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There are many fine camera systems available in the market and all of

us look forward to the agreeable Customer Service that comes with it.

I think that Mr Vogt should remember that WE choose his product, not

the other way around.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Dave,<P>I'm having a little trouble here. what exactly was it about

the "intonation" of Mr. Vogt's response that bothered you? he

seems to have responded point by point to Dr. Meincke's

problem and corrected mistatements by Dr. Meincke (there was

only one camera , not two, that Dr. Meincke --as he himself

acknowledged--failed to remove the protective cover on the front

surfaced mirror; that the alignment problem appeared to be with

a specific lens not the camera itself). <P>We certainly have other

manudfacturer's representatives who sometimes participate

here whose arrogance sometimes astounds me. perhaps it is

that Mr. Vogt's first language isn't English? I too fell into that trap

with my first response to Dr. Meincke. A failing for which I now

apologize.