Minimum stock D76 to develop film

[rick_jones5]

I would like to experiment with extended development times with D76. Kodak

suggests 8oz of stock is needed to develop 80 sq in of film when diluting 1:1. I

suspect 8oz will develop a lot more than 80 sq in but would appreciate knowing

if anyone has actually established a minimum.

[ronald_moravec1]

4 oz stock reguardless of dilution and you must cover the film so 8 oz total minimum.

 

Less than that and you risk underdevelopment.

[matt_needham]

In college I was taught constant agitation development, and we used only enough developer to fill our tanks half way. Of course testing must be done to determine development time changes.

[john_shriver]

Read Kodak publication J-78, "D-76 Developer", and understand it. (Well, you can ignore the sections on replenishment, especially since they don't make D-76R anymore.)

 

You need 8 ounces of D-76 stock per "roll" (80 square inches). To develop on 36 exposure roll of 35mm film, you need 8 ounces of developer, and 8 ounces of water, in a 16 once tank. Put an empty reel in the top.

 

They note that you can be cheap and use 4 ounces developer and 4 ounces water, but you must increase the developing times by 10%. That's because the developer gets exhausted.

 

The traditional developer if you're interested in long times and stand or semi-stand development is Rodinal.

 

As for constant agitation development, Kodak has never recommended it.

[luke_ballard]

I am not sure why anyone would want to start playing around with minimum development and extending times and such with D-76, the stuff is cheap, its like 14.00 dollars for enough powder to make a full gallon of stock soulution. Its cheap so why risk under development?

 

Also the above poster is correct, it has NEVER been recommended to use constant agitation. In fact, in almost all the books I have read, (Almost 40 or so) on darkroom development, it is noted that when using D-76, the more agitation the more contrast you will build into the negative. So if you contantly agitated it for a 10min dev, just saying, it would probably REALLY effect your negs.

 

I also went to a school for photogrpahy, a Fine Arts Program and a 4 yr Degree at a regular university that has had the same photo program for 40yrs or so. They never taught us to only fill our tanks half full, they taught us to use just under the tanks capacaty, for a 2 roll tank, 16 oz's. That puts the amount at practically almost the top. Personally, I just fill it up all the way and pour just a bit back into the bottle. Been doing it for years without any trouble. I am sure not going to risk not having enough to cover my film when the stuff is so cheap. Also, I make a full gallon then pour it into 1 liter bottles(makes about 4 of them). I can develop a min of 10 to 15 rolls with one liter before I need to dump it and grab a fresh liter bottle (oh, I make sure and fill those extra mixed bottles to the VERY TOP and they are standard brown, so it doesn't get weak or go bad). You can reuse it a lot. D-76 is probably one of the most forgiving developers out there and also the most CHAEP in price. Don't skimp on it, just use the stuff and get good results! I never even dilute mine, I always use a stock soulution, it last plenty long enough, plus it makes times a lot quicker.

Just my 2 cents. Didn't mean for any of what I said to sound mean at all, please don't take it like that, but I have been using d-76 for 20 years, its cheap, don't skimp on it and don't worry about getting exactly to the micro liter of dev in the tank just enough to cover, I mean come on, just fill it up and roll with it. Its not hard and very forgiving and last a long time. My usual rule with my 1 liter bottle of stock is, after about 7 to 10 rolls, if it is really nasty brown, and got a lot of particulate in it, I dump it and grab a new bottle. Just my rule of thumb after developing well over a thousnad rolls with the stuff, but you can make up your own kinda rules of thumb with practice, you can sense when it is getting exhausted and ready for a new batch.

 

L.

[rick_jones5]

Luke - Dick Dickerson and Silvia Zawadzki are retired Kodak product specialists who have been writing some very interesting articles for Photo Techniques. Recently they put forth some pretty persuasive arguments relating to the benefits of extending development times. Rather than wanting to save money I was curious to see if some of the benefits they described could be translated to my work. Because D76 has been a developer I have used for years that seemed like a sensible place to start.

[luke_ballard]

Ahh cool..I didn't know that. Well certainly that makes sense. Hey do you have a link or a place to find those articles? I would love to read them cause I use the stuff like crazy. Im sorry I took it as you were wanting to save money on it, some new ppl to developing aim to do just that, but they wind up getting into more problems than if they just used it stock and normal times.

 

Hey that would be really great if you could aim me in the direction of those articles, I am always looking at new things ppl are putting out to experiment with my ongoing works. And you did pick a good dev to start, D-76 I think was being made back when the dinasours still roamed the planet.lol..its good stuff.

 

Sorry I mistook what you said, my apologies.

 

Luke

[matt_needham]

"...it has NEVER been recommended to use constant agitation..."

 

You should write a letter to Jobo and the other processor manufacturers. Apparently they didn't get the memo.

[luke_ballard]

When I said it has never been recommended to use constant agitation I was refering to the use of D-76, not a single book, piece of literature, or a 4 yr college recommended you constantly agitate film in development with D-76.

The standard is 30sec of agaitation to start, or 1 min by some books, and then 5 sec every 30 sec. Geez, that is written in every darkroom manual I have ever read. I have never read a piece of literature that said you should sit and agitate film on D-76 for the entire time that it is to be developed.

I don't know where you got your information from, but I can site over 40 sources for mine! And if I wanted to waste my time, I could find probably another 100 sources saying the same thing. Where have you ever seen that it is recommended to agitate film during development for the entire time of develpment? If you can point me to that liturature, I'll surley take a look.

Even on the fact sheet for D-76 it doesn't say agitate for the entire 10min, or 8 1/2min, or whatever time for the specific film.

 

Maybe you should send a memo to all the PhD's teaching photo 101 at all the photo schools around the country and let them know that what they have been teaching for I don't know, 35 years or more is wrong.

 

I will be happy to site my sources, do you have any?

[rick_jones5]

Luke - there were 2 Photo Techniques articles by Dick and Sylvia that discussed extended developing times: March/April 2006 (Vol 27, No. 2) "Long Developing Times: Bane or Gain?" and May/June 2006 (Vol 27, No. 3) continuing their Photography Myths theme - "Developer Dilution Produces Finer Grain". Back issues are available through the Photo Techniques website http://www.phototechmag.com/

[rick_jones5]

Found 1 more: July/Aug 2006 (Vol.27, NO. 4) "There's Only One Right Way to Shake the Can".

[luke_ballard]

Thanks Rick, I'll def go check those out, like I said, I didn't know you were extending the times for that reason, I thought as most that it was just trying to make dev last as long as possible..don't get me wrong, I try and make stuff last, but it is cheap stuff, so doing it just to try and save a buck or 2 usually causes more problems for the unexperienced person.

 

Thanks for the links to those articles, it actually sounds like something I am trying to do also, The part you mentioned and quoted about Dev Dil, produces finer grain, that is something I am interested in, so thanks a bunch, and again, I apologize, didn't mean to offend.

 

Luke

[luke_ballard]

Hey Rick,

 

I just checked out the link, I'll need to purchase the magazine for the articles it looks like, and one is sold out, so I can't get a hold of it. Looks like a great magazine and I think I am going to subscribe to it, looks like a lot of good knowledge in those.

But I had a question since you have read the articles, did it confirm in the articles that more vigirious agitation using D-76 builds contrast into the negatives? I have done some trials myself doing this and found some recognizable results, after reading a section in a book called "Master Photograhy" by Busselle, he mentioned that agitating very hard, almost kinda violently back and forth using D-76 will build contrast into negatives, so I tried it out and did see good results.

I have never as mentioned above agitated with D-76 for the entire time, I would think that that might cause some problems, I mean the whole purpose of wrapping (sp?) the tank after agitation is to knock any air bubbles off the film after agitating, I would think that if you sat and agitated the can the entire time you would build an enourmous amount of air bubbles in the tank and possibly cause some spotting due to developer not being able to soak against the film consistantly and at a regular rate. Hence the 5 sec or so of agitation every 30sec then wrapping the tank a few times to knock the bubbles to the surface then again to mix and allow fresh developer to soak against the film. I don't know personally cause I have never agitated a roll of film for the entire development, but did they mention anything about that? That specific issue is sold out, so I won't be able to read it. Was there something specific in that issue, "There is only one right was to shake a can" that you have seen as valuble and tried and saw better results?

 

Hope I am not asking to much, just these fourms are a place to learn and even after 21 years developing and processing, I am always learning more. I think the day one thinks they know it all and can't learn anymore is the day they should quit.. lol..

 

Thanks for the info Rick.

 

Luke

[luke_ballard]

Just to clarify for Matt, or others, I wasn't referring to Jobo tanks and C-41 type processing when I said constant agitation wasn't recommended. Of course they do in those systems.

I was refering to small tank systems, like small 2 reel SS tanks and such. Of course you are right about Jobo and Large film processors, they do constantly agitate, but they are designed to do so.

I am only referring to small tank systems. So sorry if there was some miscommunication.

I have read a lot on here on this subject and found it to be a idea that many have different opinions on. I guess I just go sometimes by the, If it Ain't broke don't fix it theory. Intermitent agitation has been taught for many years for small tank applications, it works, but constant agitation with small tanks does have problems as you can read in some of the threads in the agitation section.

 

Sorry for the miscommunication.

[frank.schifano]

Luke,

 

"...its like 14.00 dollars for enough powder to make a full gallon of stock soulution."

 

$14 US for a 1 gallon packet of D-76? You're getting ripped off man. B&H sells that for $5.49 US. Adorama sells it for even less - $4.79 There area few other places with prices within a dollar or two of that. Shop around man!

[luke_ballard]

Ahh..sorry, your right, I just ordered a liter of washaid today and it was 14.95, I don't know what I was thinking, I must have been thinking about the price on the washaid I had just ordered and not the developer I oredered about a month ago..yeah its like 5.95 for fixer and Developer, for the gallon powder..

My mistake, just a mix in numbers, my mind was on telling him how cheap it was and I must have just been thinking about the 14.95 number by accident. Ilford Washaid Liter, 14.95, I just ran out 2 days ago and had to get some in quick so that is what I was thinking of at the moment today. I actually wrote the post about an hour after ordering the washaid. Dang, thats what gettin old does to ya..lol..

 

Naa Im not getting ripped off..just need to get my alsheimers meds checked..lol..sorry Frank, just one of those brain farts..it is weird though how you can have just done something like that and then transpose those numbers so easily..Think had my mind on telling him how cheap it was and just transposed what I did into the post with the 14.95, wow..thanks for the correction...I would have been freaked next time I went to order D-76, WOW they have cut thier prices by 3/4...lol..j/k..:)

 

Luke

[jeff glass]

So, John, Ronald, Matt:

 

If I've been using 5 oz stock plus 5 oz water in a 20 ounce (Patterson) tank for one roll

(empty roll on top) to do 1:1 development, I should be increasing my times by 10% or so

to avoid underdevelopment?

 

That 8 oz. minimum per roll of stock regardless of tank size and dilution is solid, correct?

In another thread folks were tossing about a 4 oz minimum and an 8 oz minimum.

 

I better read J-78 again.

 

Thanks

 

Jeff Glass

[keith_lubow]

You can agitate however the heck you want. As long as it is the same every time, you will have control and repeatability. When Kodak "recommends" an agitation technique, they are simply telling you how THEY agitated to get THEIR recommended development times for normal contrast. So, if you are using their published development times, it is a good idea to agitate as they suggest.

 

Keith