Wedding Contract Dispute - Please Help!

[e_c12]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for reading this.

 

On December 31, 2006, I got married in Florida. As I do not live in-state, I

trusted my parents to finalize the vendor contracts. At point, my mother

signed our contract with our photographer although my father and she both paid

for the services ($3,500).

 

In March, we finally got proofs - much later than the 4-6 weeks she estimated -

and they were terrible. The photographer refused to ship the proofs directly

to me, so she gave them to my mom who then sent them to me. I looked through

them and put together a "yes" box and a "no" box with much difficultly, as

everyone looked terrible in every shot. They took one photo of my father

walking me down the aisle, and many of me dancing with my mouth hanging open

and such. I shipped these directly to the photographer anticipating a mock-up

album.

 

In late May, after making phone calls and not receiving any reply, I finally

reached the photographer who told me that she had released the mock-up album

to my mother about a month earlier. Stunned, I called my mother and convinced

her to mail me the mock-up.

 

When it arrived, I was crushed. The mock-up album contained about 5 out of

100 pictures that I had picked. There were almost no pictures of my husband

and me, none of our friends or attendants, and a lot of my mother and her

family and friends. Discouraged, I called the photographer to see what the

problem was, and she informed me that she had done a custom album planning

session for me on my behalf with my mother and those were the pictures they

had chosen together. I asked her why they had not put in pictuers of the

bride and groom. She relayed that if I was so dissatisfied, I could edit the

arrangement. She said that my original choices were "bizarre" and that she

did not like them so she and my mother acted on my behalf to choose ones THEY

liked. Every one they picked of myself and my husband are where we look

especially unflattering.

 

I replaced the pictures one for one with things like my dress, the formal

shots, my other family members, my husband's family altogether, etc. I took

the ones that they had put in without telling me and kept them in a separate

box and only shipped back the ones I wanted for the album so as to prevent

this happening again. My mother called several times and demanded that I send

back the new "no" box; I refused and said I would return it once I had an

album in my hands.

 

In July, I finally tracked the photographer down and asked why they needed the

box; when I explained that the album she had planned with my mother was not

the one I wanted her to make - and that the photographs I wanted were in the

box she had in the order I wanted them - she replied that I was over my

picture credit towards the album and the difference would cost about $2,000.

I asked her to send me the box back and I would trim them OR we could do it

over the phone. First, she said that I needed to fly down and do it in

person. Then she said she would call me back.

 

Finally, after months of not returning phone calls, on Wednesday she agreed to

send me back the box and have me arrange the photos again. She said she would

work with me directly and call me if she had other thoughts or problems.

 

Today, my mother wrote me that she and the photographer had made alternate

arrangements to make an album the way they wanted it. I believe that she will

be keeping the album. My father, who paid for half of the photographer's

initial $3,500 cost, is livid and just wants me to get an album of pictures

from my wedding. The photographer did not come to me with any concerns as she

had promised but went directly to my mother instead.

 

At this point, I don't know what to do. The photographer says that since my

mother signed the contract, she has no obligation to do what my father or I

want. She says that my mother has been acting on my behalf and that she has

been under no obligation to speak with me, work out solutions with me, or even

include pictures of me in the album. I still have half the proofs - the ones

I don't want, which I expressed to the photographer I would return once we

received an album. I also made digital scans of all of the photographs,

although the photographer will not give me a copyright release so I cannot use

them in any way.

 

What are you thoughts? Do you have any suggestions on how to proceed? Is the

verbal agreement that the photographer would send me the proofs and make an

album for me enough to supercede the contract language? We also have emails

in which I confirm the arrangement with her.

 

Thanks for reading and for your comments!

EC

 

[a few images]

I feel like starting this post off with, "Sorry for your loss"

 

The contract was with your mother, the photog has no obligation to anyone other than her.

 

However, maybe through some slight of hand you can trick the photog..

 

Here's how..

 

The photog took photos of you and your husband and sold those photos to your mother - Did you sign a release? If not, threaten her with a lawsuit and follow through. End of problem.

 

The bigger problem seems to be the lack of communication between you and your mother. I suggest counceling.

[fstop11664880086]

Hire a lawyer. Send a letter of intent to photographer. I'm sorry you have to go through such things with your family, and your "MOM's" photographer. Perhaps a conference call between your Mom, and photographer? Have your Mom come up with the difference ($2K) I wish you luck -

[john at storybook pages]

The ultimate solution would be to get the high-resolution digital images on a CD and a release to use them in an album. Not sure how you get that but then you could outsource the album to any number of design houses. Advice at www.storybookpages.com

[stephen dohring]

It's your album, if it is a gift from Mom say thank you Mom but you need to step out. Your photographer must be so pissed off at this point, they will start charging you for all this hassel. You have to take Mom out of the equation or let her buy her own custom album.

[jc5066]

Your lawsuit will get thrown out of court. The photographer has no obligation to you what so ever. His obligation is with the person who signed the contract.

[tim_schultz1]

It sounds like you and your mother are not on the same page.

[carbon_dragon]

You'd probably end up paying the lawyer more anyway, but I suspect the photographer might be willing to make some accomodation with you rather than be sued, even if he or she did win.

 

I'm sorry for your loss too, but at least you have your health. The photographer doesn't really sound reputable, so I'd be reluctant to spend money with them, but maybe you could make your own deal. You really have no choice other than to have the wedding over.

[justin_hall]

I've only done a dozen weddings and I've already had a taste of the dreaded BrideZilla - or even worse, the dreaded "Evil Mother-In-Law-Zilla".

 

As a photographer I will now only sign a contract with the Bride or Groom, I don't care who pays me - but it must be the Bride who signs the deal.

 

Weddings can really bring the worst out in people - and without sounding sexist its usually the women who are a nightmare. Men are usually simple creatures who go along with whatever and normally write the cheque happily at the end.

 

I've even been a guest at a friends wedding where the Mom has started ordering me around like a right little Nazi. She was the Nazi I mean. I wasn't.

 

My suggestion is that (as you guys are in the USA) therapy and counseling is the best bet. The best of luck.

 

Or fly me over from the UK and I'll do a nice location shoot free of charge - maybe with the help of some other photographers here at photo.net.

[g.e._masana]

The problem IS your mom. She's the one that keeps directing the photographer back to what she (your mom) wants, and because the contract's with your mom, your photographer is up against the wall on this one when it comes to accommodating you.

 

It also sounds like your mom is NOT dealing openly with you on this at all, sorry to say: Your mom didn't even notify you when she received the mock-up for the album, you had to find out when you finally called the photographer about it. It's your mom who insisted you send back the photos you took out of what she wanted in the album. And I'll bet she's the one that first used the word "bizarre" to describe your choices and said so to the photographer and had the photographer sit down with her to accommodate her choices instead. So it's NO WONDER they're mostly photos of your mother and her family and friends, and hardly anything of you and your husband and friends. I feel so sorry for you, not so much because of the photos, but because of your mom acting this way!

 

Insofar as mouth hanging open while dancing (or "dance face"), the camera can only captures what happens, and that's what happened while you were dancing. The photographer cannot go up to you every moment while you're actively dancing about and living your wedding day and direct you to do this and that. You'll lose the moment first of all, and get real annoyed after a few times of that as well. Having said that, I do think the photographer should have a better skill at grabbing more photogenic moments, but that has to do part with what's there to photograph and part with the photographer's skill level, and skill levels are all over the board.

 

I know you trusted your mom on this but, to paraphrase an idiom, "one mom's ceiling is another bride's floor". Your mom's running this show.

 

What to do? Either work it out with mom (which doesn't sound likely) or spend the bucks to get what you want because mom's using up the contracted money SHE spent to get what SHE wants first before you're even being considered.

[waltflanagan]

It sounds like your mom is the problem not the photographer.

[e_c12]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

Since a lot of you are recommending counseling, I feel compelled to tell you that my mother is verging on mentally ill and is unwilling to work with me on anything. She hates my husband, etc. etc.

 

As for the response about "dance face" - no really. I'll try to post some of these pics. The photographer literally ignored our requests for no "campy" photos, never so much as thought to have people stop, pose, and smile (as I've seen done at EVERY wedding I've attended since - I look for it now) on the dance floor or even walking down the aisle!

 

Also, to clarify. My mom signed the contract, my dad paid for half of the photo costs.

 

Finally, even before teh fiasco began, our photographer always adopted an attitude of, "I'm a professional. I know more than you. I will do my own thing" which, coupled with their behavior at the ceremony, made us uncomfortable enough with them to actually go out and buy a high quality scanner and scan all of the proofs when we received them, thinking something like this might happen. I just never realized that I would need a release before taking the prints elsewhere (which the photographer obviously won't give us).

 

Thanks again for all of the replies.

 

Also, in response to one of the earlier posts, no - we did not sign any kind of release for the photographer. The contract my mother signed may have contained that language - I have not seen a copy.

[a few images]

I'll ask you again..

 

DID you sign a release?

 

If you did not, the photographer sold images of YOU and your HUSBAND for a profit. You have an easy case. It's a no-brainer.

 

See, the photog took photos of you and your husband, as well as guests and sold them to a "third party" for profit, WITHOUT your consent. You can ride this photog into the ground if you wish to.

[jc5066]

It doesn't matter who paid for it. Its who signed it.

 

Secondly, the photographer does not need a release as one poster mis-informed you. A wedding is one of those "givens" in life. If you attend, you can expect to have your picture taken by a professional photographer to sell images and make money.

 

Try to work with your mom is about all you can do.

[a few images]

Jon, I think you're very wrong here..

 

If the bride and groom did not sign a release and the photog sold the photos to a third party (the mom) for a profit the bride and groom have a solid case against the photog..

 

It would be like me taking photos of Brad Armpitt at his wedding and then selling the photos for a profit - They can sue the crap out of me.

[justin_hall]

I'm sorry to hear about your mom's mental illness and forgive me for sounding glib earlier.

 

I would listen to what Tom and Jon are saying above. A model release/consent form is more powerful than you may realise - well in the UK at least but such laws may be stricter than in the US (I know UK/Euro Data Protection law is far stricter - hence so much spam originating in the States).

 

If I were you I would be tempted to upload all of your scanned photos to an online printing site and get them printed. Did I just say that?

 

Life is too short, your Mom has what she wants, the photographer has what SHE wants - just quietly get what YOU want and stay schtum.

[m3rdpwr]

Jon/Tom,

 

I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on TV... :)

I know very little about the law.

 

However, I heard in public you can pretty much take pic's of whatever you want and show them mostly. You can not make profit without release.

 

 

However, I would think that this is a private function of the Groom and bride.

 

If me or a guest walked in and took pic's and tried to sell, I would think I'd be in trouble.

 

However, I could just be blowing smoke out of my @$$... :)

 

Hopefully this can be resolved for easily for them though...

 

-Mario

[christopher_rajkumar]

Sounds like your mom is trying to get back at your dad, your husband and to a certain extent at you for not having chosen wisely(and I don't mean the picture selection)in her eyes. If I were in your shoes, I'd try and sweet talk your mom into doing what you want, but make sure she thinks its her idea and not yours. It might sound like day time TV, but you need your album the way you want it and thats the bottom line.

-Chris.

[jmichaelc]

Not sure what to say here to make things better. I think the mother should by all means hand over the entire decision making process to the bride.

 

I make it very clear at the initial consultations that from that point forward our communication rests soly between us and the bride. After our services are complete, only then do we take special requests from other family members, regardless of who signs the contract and pays for our services. Never once have we had a client not want to comply with this.

 

I would be outraged if i were you. Not only with the photographer making personal decision but with your mother as well. However, i will say this. This should have been taken care of way before hand between you, your mother, and the photographer. You should have been the first point of contact through the entire process. If your mother was against that, then you should NOT have allowd her to sign on your behalf.

[memphis1]

not to throw coals on the fire, but let's objectify here...

 

The photographer was contracted by party a to photograph the event.

 

party b is a participant in the event.

 

party a paid the photographer for services rendered.

 

party b really has no involvement in the payment or delivery end of this contract.

 

party b has no legal recourse.

 

photographer did a work for hire. His client was the event (party a)and he has done his contractual oblication. Party b can be turned into an additional revenue stream legally and without any hassle.

 

if the photographer wanted to be cool and make this go away rather than think about additional profit... or he could turn this into an opportunity and work the sales job with party b. as well as party a.

 

 

I also suspect, we're only getting half the story, there's 3 agendas here...

 

she could have been a bridezilla and is trying to find sympathy and manipulate the situation to her advantage (just a possibility here)

[kellyka]

EC, What a frusterating and unfortunant situation. If you do not wish to get lawyors involved I would contact the photographer and ask her how much a second album would cost. Let her know that the album that your mom is picking photos for, can be sent to her as she paid for it and has no intrest in making it how you would like it, and I would see if you can have a second one made with your photo picks.Alot of times photographers will offer reduced prices for additional albums, and while it may be expensive, it might also be cheaper than hiring a lawyor and less destructive towards your family relationships, should things end up in court.

[kari douma]

The photographer has a contract with your mom, and therefor his obligation is to your mom.

 

You need to think about the consequenses of hurting your relationship with your mom on this one. From your side of the story, it sounds like she is not doing what is right, but is it worth ruining any relationship over something you could fix? When I say fix, I mean you could just buy your own album.

 

I would call the photographer, and tell him you would like to buy your own album, on the condition that he uses the images you would like. Tell him that your mom has nothing to do with this. Even ask him if he could work a deal with you, since your contract did not include 2 albums, and this one would just be a bonus for him. If you are tight on money, maybe you could work out a payment schedule over the course of a year or so.

[e_c12]

Thank you all for your replies and suggestions.

 

Blake, I'm not trying to drum up sympathy. I wrote a post here to try to assess the situation, hear what other photographers had to say, and get a fresh perspective. I understand that this is an odd situation, but, given how messed up families are today, I wouldn't have thought it so unique (leave it up to my family to take that prize). Moreover, I wanted advice from real photographers how to proceed to talk to my photographer - perhaps to get some uinderstanding of how she might view the situation. All of these comments have truly helped me gain that perspective that I needed. Your comment was also informative. I've been pleading with the photographer emotionally over my wedding pictures ... I'll reach out to her again from a business angle and point out the potential sales opporutnities of another album, some large prints, additional prints for family members, etc.

[KenPapai]

I work with arbitrators... here's where I lay the blame:

 

Mother - 40%; bride - 50%; photog - 10%.

 

The photographer could "get off the schneid" and help out the bride here with some flattering prints for still a good profit. T

 

The bride is most to blame because she deferred control to her mother (whom she was probably aware was already unstable and disrespectful).

 

The mother should learn to be more caring about her daughter's feelings on her special day and not be so damned stubborn. Class-A dysfunctional going on here regardless of everyone's mental states.

[ellis_vener_photography]

take your mom out of the loop by paying her back what she has spent along with a letter thanking her for help and saying you'll take over from here. let her keep the album she paid for. Make a condition of her cashing the check that she sign a release authorizing the photographer to deal with you from now on. Contact the photographer with a copy of that letter and order ( and pay for) the album of your dreams.

 

If I was a therapist , I'd say your mother and you have boundary issues.