A note to all beginners and a tip...

[steven_moseley1]

Hi,

 

A beginner posted a Q asking what gear to buy with X amount of USD.

 

These posts appear regularly and many posters then advise on nice cameras and

lenses to buy and the beginner quite often, I am sure goes away even more

confused than when they started...so as someone who trained at photo college to

become a pro, I have some advice that is hardly ever given...

 

...go buy some time on a GOOD and recognised photo course at a college,

preferably a college that specialises in training for hopeful pro's..

 

cheers Steve.M. (it may be the best money you ever spent!)

[photobiscuits]

It's not rocket science here - frame something you want to capture, get the exposure right and snap the shutter. voila you have a photograph.<br>

I would suggest that what separates the geniuses and the artists from the laymen like me is not college. It is vision and an inborn or learned with practice ability to see what is going to work and what might not. Not something a college course is going to give you.<br>

Specific questions about lighting, how to post process, etc etc can all be learned from books at the library or here or there.<br>

To the beginner I would say buy the camera, screw the college course. Find a friend who enjoys photography too and ask questions. Learn by doing, it's not that hard.<br>

[steven_moseley1]

Hi,

 

Mike..it may not be rocket science but you only have to look at many of the posts here on PN from people who have taught themselves, to realise many of them do not have a proper grasp of even basic technique or even how their camera works.

 

Your suggestion of 'learning by doing' only teaches you A WAY of doing things, not neccessarily the best way. Also being self taught can propogate mistakes and im-proper techniques.

 

It is a shame you seem so anti-college as many of them have fine teachers who can show you how to do things that books cannot...hands on teaching from a person who really knows their stuff cannot be duplicated by any books.

 

cheers Steve.M.

[gary evans]

So Steven, let me see if I have this right -

 

If you have $1500 to spend and no equipment, but you want to give photography a shot because you've always liked it in some fashion or another, you'd advise that they spend their money on a class?!?! What good is a photography class without a camera?

 

I seriously don't understand anyone advising school to teach any kind of art. Especially in this day and age, where so much technical information for any art form is readily available for free via the internet.

[sandysocks]

A valid point I guess. But after college and decades of experience, you find yourself asking what gear and how much money. And the darned answers keep changing all of the time. There is no substitute for exchanging ideas on a forum with people trying the newest and latest.

[steven_moseley1]

Hi,

 

I am quite shocked that people are so anti-education, did you guys have some type of bad experience? ...and it is not possible to get a great self education, for the reasons I already stated. Also the web is just FULL of mis-information because no one controls it.

 

I also did not suggest a beginner blow all his/her money on a course..please show me where exactly I said that?

 

..and why are there regular posters on PN asking for mentors?

 

geez, I just tried to mention that GEAR is not ALL important and that some education might be nice...but I guess some folks simply do not like being educated..

[petemillis]

Yep, the best thing is to spend your dosh on a college course that trains people to become pro, then find there are no jobs and end up working in a shop ;) Only joshing Steve!

 

I think best advice for a beginner is for the beginner to spend just a small to moderate amount on equipment and to learn properly how to use it. Learning to use it doesn't really require a college course - but the beginner does need to have an enquiring mind, and to want to read, and discuss things and try experimenting to work out what is what. Spending GBPxxxx on the best equipment won't make them take good photographs, and neither will a college course. Once the beginner has worked out that they really do like photography, and they have built up a bit of knowledge, then they can make a more informed decision before parting with lots and lots of money. I wonder how many brand new cameras bought by beginners are now sitting in cupboards unused, and how many beginners have attended a course and picked up a certificate, yet never pick up a camera?

[geoff_foale]

A specialist photo college course is probably a good idea if you have spare money and live in a city which has suitable courses. If you live in a rural area and are struggling with second hand equipment the old fashioned book may prove more realistic. Some areas do have adult education evening or weekend courses which will provide the basics of digital photography but how good are they? I'm sure that there are some excellent courses around but what if it is just an all in digital course which is chiefly trying to teach point & shooters very basic knowledge while you want to learn advanced techniques.

 

When I started attempting to learn digital photography a few years ago there were very few options available. Now, fortunately, there are a great many books and on line tutorials to help. So if you can find and afford a suitable course, by all means do it; if not, search out the information for yourself. And remember to read the information that is in your camera instruction book and on the software Help files.

 

Above all else - enjoy learning.

[don_e]

"...the beginner quite often, I am sure goes away even more confused than when they started"

 

Par for the web.

 

I don't think many of the photographers whose work I admire have or had degrees in art. I'd guess if any of them entered a university it was to teach.

 

There is nothing as good for learning as hands-on instruction, and if the place one can get that is in a classroom, then it may be worthwhile. Alternatives are mentors and doing scutwork in a studio. It's possible to teach yourself from books and from studying photographs.

 

Apparently, nothing beats a good education for networking up a career.

[fourthst]

Steven, I'm with you. I was self-taught and then went to school for a "formal" education.

While teaching yourself is one way of doing it, it is more difficult and time consuming. Which

is fine if you don't mind a challenge and have the time it invest. On the other hand I probably

wouldn't use a lawyer or doctor that was self-taught. To this day I still look for classes on

topics that are new to me and there are many seeing that I am fairly new to digital.

[bsharpe411]

I agree with Steve about taking a photography course BEFORE making an investment of $1000's in gear, but I have to disagree about finding a college that necessarily specializes in photography and aims to make everybody a 'pro'. Many years ago I taught photography classes in adult educ. programs run by our local public school system. There were no credits, degree requirements, or any of that stuff. It was just designed for adults to find out what equipment & materials were available; assess and critique pictures; play with different cameras/ lenses; and basic developing/printing B&W. As I remember, the cost was about $40 back in the late 70's.

Currently our community college is offering Phtotgraphy 1 classes. It meets for 2 hours, once per week for 5 weeks. The cost is $125. I feel that before committing to anything more serious, the neophyte should look for something like this. They also offer several follow-up courses that are more specific. If this becomes your passion, then go for it...if just a hobby, then enjoy it without buying a lot of useless junk.

[tonmestrom]

I never understood that fetisj that some people seem to have with photo equipment. It's not the equipment that gets you great photo's but creativity. You either have that and develop that or you simply haven't got it. It's as simple as that. I think it not wise to advice a beginner to go buy an expensive camera and some lenses. Remember, some great photo's have and are being taken with simple point&shoot camera's.

Gary is right to some extent. I did my training at an acadamy of fine arts. They couldn't (nor pretended) to make me a better photographer but I took away a whole load of neccessary knowledge, experience and insight in my own abilities. Also I got exposed to great photography, tutoring and pushed hard to deliver better work and use my creativity. So education helps (and there you're wrong). While there are some great photographers around who are selftaught they are few and far between. You need feedback. If not why are we all here I wonder?

Just advice (and help) a beginner to find out if photography is really something he likes or just a spur of the moment with the equipment the've got. I've helped some people along in the past and its very rewarding to see them grow, get better and most of all get a lot of pleasure out of it.

[walter_degroot]

when I worked for ITT, they hired RETS ( radio,electronic school) and the graduates were uniformly ignorant,. Little knowledge and no experience.

I asked a long term experienced tech why this was so and he pointed out thwey the new engineers were in the same category, theoretical knowlege but none of it practical. the best ones were promoted and guess what they became managers and never did any design work or hands on.

I saw 4 or 5 who could really fix something or make something work, they were often shunted aside as odd-balls and gotten rid of.

.

Young folks read all you can. study your "art" and try things.

Live and eat photography and learn how things are done.

work for an experienced person and put up with idiosyncocies and lean the trade.

 

do you think it is any different in computer repair or photography?

all the bs artist with minimum skills get rich and the really

hard working guys MAY prosper, but usually just keep working hard until they drop dead/

[tonmestrom]

but then Walter what's the point you're trying to make? What would you advice a beginner in photography I wonder

[ifti]

If you are serious to learn and enjoy photography then buy an SLR with a kit lens you can easily afford. Then shoot and shoot, Look at picture sites and get ideas. As you discover what type of pictures you like to take and enjoy then you will intelligently buy the enhancements to fit your goals and budget.

 

If however you want to be pro you need to learn from an institution and get programmed then develop your own niche. Regards ifti

[john_elder1]

Formal photography education not only teaches correct technique, but forces students to do things that they wouldn't do if left to their own resources. Thus opening their eyes to different types of photography and differnet types of vision. Education never hurt anyone. I think it is a great way to acquire alot of knowledge very quickly with maximum feedback. It is also true that alot of the learning that goes on is simply a function of having a concentration of many motivated people pursuing excellence in photography.

[bruce_mattes]

I come from a family of artisans, craftsmen, & artists..

 

Craftsmanship, & artisanship CAN be taught..Being a true artist, regardless of the field, is something that you are either born with or you are not..An artist CAN improve themselves & their art, but without the basic core ability you cannot BE an artist..

 

The vast majority of people are not artists, myself included, & never will be..I believe that what Mr. Moseley is saying is that by going to an accredited school a budding photographer will be able to avoid a lot of common mistakes that the self-taught photographer will make..Their learning curve will be much less steep, & their initial progress much faster..The money will be well spent..

 

Where the photographer goes from there is going to depend a lot upon enthusiasm, dedication, finances, life's quirks & nuances, luck; and yes, whether of not they have any true artistic ability..

 

Bruce

[seismiccwave]

Too much information can be dangerous! No, I am not anti-college or pro-college. IMHO

the best way to learn anything in life is to be an apprentice to a known master that is

willing to teach. Unfortunately that is neither simple, available or achievable for many

citizens of this world.

 

In the old days, if you want to learn to make a great sword you study under a great sword

maker. If you want to paint you study under a great painter. If you want to dance you

study under a dance master. If you want to learn karate you studio under Miyaji san.;-)

 

When civilizations get crowded and copy cats started springing up you have a hard time

finding the great masters. So some good citizens organize and create some bureaucratic

institutes call schools/colleges/universities. They hire teachers that fit a certain criteria

and make them follow certain guidelines in teaching.

 

Just like finding the great masters, finding a good school is equally difficult. Just because

there are photo colleges doesn't mean that they are any good. For that matter some

universities have excellent photography and/or art classes that cater to photography

students.

 

So what is my point. My point is that it is really up to the individual. First it really depends

on the reason for the person wanting to learn photography. If the person simply wants to

take photographs of the family during a picnic then a simple point and shoot camera has

everything automated. There were probably more high quality images(snap shots) being

made because the technology of point and shoot cameras are so good.

 

If the individual wants to use the camera simply to create art then the person will need to

get a bit more involved.

 

Then comes the second question. Is the person willing to spend money. The reason why

anyone comes on PN to ask question is because the answers are free. Now under the

economic theory that there is no free lunch you will have to take the answers with a grain

of salt. You can't tell if the answers are posted by anyone with "credibility". So going away

confused should be more the norm than the exception.

 

If the individual is willing to pay, of course some form of formal training is always better

than none. That said, too much formal training can sometimes lower the creative process.

The student may be too concern with all the technical details and get bogged down.

 

So the best way to learn photography is still to mentor under a great master.

[craig_gillette]

No, no. Spend the money on a big Gitzo CF tripod and the RRS BH-55. Take that to class with you. When they ask what it is, tell them that you'll eventually save enough money to buy a camera but at least the course will have helped you narrow down the cameras under consideration.

[spanky]

Here's my $.02 - Take a college course. I've taken two at two different schools and each class was well worth the very reasonable cost. I decided to take the first course because I just wasn't happy with the results I was getting back from the labs. This unsatisfaction was both my own approach as well as the print quality.

Furthermore I wasn't exactly sure where I wanted to go with photography.

 

So during my first course I learned darkroom developing and printing. I also learned that street and documentary photography was where my interests were. I had a fantastic teacher who was very encouraging and it was because of him I decided to dedicate most of my free time to photography and start shooting medium format. This change prompted my to take another course at another school (due to work conflicts it was the only school near me to fit my schedule). Again I lucked out with another great teacher who expanded on what I already knew.

 

Lastly, I belong to a photography program run by the cultural affairs dept of LA. The coordinator of the program has also been an enormous help in getting me through the occasional rough spots as I continue to learn.

 

So with the low cost of community colleges I think it will be money well spent for anyone at any level of experience.

[steven_moseley1]

...thanks all for restoring some faith in PN's members.

 

Bruce...you have my point exactly.

 

College opens you up and also offers many new toys to play with that you otherwise would not have access to..medium format, large format etc.

 

cheers Steve.M.