ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Last weekend I decided to try my hand at street photography. Here are a few: http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=776106 The picture of the teenage fans was one of the first ones I took. Ten minutes after I took it, I ran in to Bruce Gilden. We talked for about 20 minutes and he let me watch him at work. An astonishing experience. The talk changed the whole way I thought, and made me want to get serious. The rest of the pictures are ones I took today. Very interested in feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamkatia Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 good contrast and tones! <br> try to get everything you want and ONLY what you want in the frame. <br> that way you won't have to crop. <br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Contrast and tones: Tri-X shot at 1250 and dev'd in Diafine. Gilden was shooting at f22 so he could ignore focus. My main goal today was to find a soup that would let me do that too. Plus take some pictures. I shot using sunny 16 so I wouldn't have to worry about metering. Basically trying to find a method that lets me snap the shutter at will and get a usable picture. Not quite there yet. Gilden uses a flash that he keeps hidden up his sleeve until he pops it out. I haven't got the guts to do that, so I just have to find a combo that lets me shoot really fast. Any other film/developer combos out there that anyone can recommend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Yeah, I they they are nice. Its also nice to always frame exactly, and some photographers even believe that cropping is a no no. Just realize that belief is only an opinion. There's no moral imperative to crop or not to crop. You'd be surprised how many professional and favous photographers have cropped, do crop, will crop. Even documentary. Just not photo-journalist, for obvious reasons. Yes, its good to learn to compose in camera whenever possible, shoot what you want and not more or less. But don't worry about a crop if you need it. Some very top end photographers always consider a crop on most every photograph. Its not a sin. The anti-intuitive truth is, IMO, that looking for the crop in your photos, will teach you, more than anything, how to frame better with less cropping as you continue...rant key over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Ignore Barry, Its full frame or no frame with 35mm street photography. Got to have that black line border showing the unexposed negative. No Joke. Take resposibilty and credit for everything in the frame. Cropping is for photoeditors at news organizations who don't shoot. Examining your photos closely indicate that in at least 3 of the 4 shots posted you took long enough focusing or composing that some of the people in the photos turned away from being photographed. With practice you will get faster. Great start! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orvillerobertson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Amazing start. Are you sure you've never done this before? I find it curious that you knew what Bruce Gilden looked like yet had no experience with street photography or at least photojournalism. Pardon my questions and take no offense. Please enlighten me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uhooru Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Don't listen to the tripe from John, its delusional psycho pap he read in a book. He has no more knowledge about "street photography" than photographers such as Alfred Eeisenstadt, Lisette Model, etc, inveterate croppers. Take some photos John, and then talk about taking responsibility for what's in the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitemistic Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Not to add fuel to this flame - ah, why not! :) <p>Photographers crop in the camera, crop in the darkroom or crop on the computer...or, all of the above. Every photo is a crop of the scene in front of you. While you should try to get just what you intend into the frame when you shoot, cropping often improves a photo, particulary those "shot from the hip" photos that a lot of street shooters like to do. <p>And, PJ's crop all the time (I am a PJ). There is nothing sacred or more honest about what a photographer chose to crop when he took the photo then later chose to crop on the computer screen. All photos are misrepresentations, at best. A tiny 2D slice of a 30 minute event at 1/500 of a sec is not reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Orville, No, I've never done this before. But I'm a wedding photographer and I've probably shot 100,000 PJ style candids. I'd heard of Gilden through a course on people photography that I took (to improve my wedding PJ work) but I didn't know what he looked like. The encounter went like this: "Hey, that's a nice camera. It's a... Leica!" "Yeah it's OK." "What model?" "I have no idea." "What are you doing here?" "Street photography." "For stock photos?" "No, I work for an agency." "What agency?" "(mumble) m...nm... (mumble)" "Which one?" "mg..nm" "Which one??" "Magnum" "MAGNUM!" "yeah that's right" "What's your name?" "(mumble) g..dn..(mumble)" "Who?" "Gilden. You never heard of me." "I SURE HAVE!" And at that point he got very friendly. We talked for a long time and he was gracious enough to let me watch him at work. And that was less than an hour after I had taken my first street picture. One of the most extraordinary experiences of my life. And yes, I crop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ray . Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 John Elder, where may I see some of your photos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adam_sacks Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Edward - <br><br> I like your compositions a lot - interesting, non-formulaic juxtapositions of elements throughout. On the suggestion side, I would recommend paying more attention to shadow detail - a very challenging technical problem - which adds depth and interest to almost any image. While there are some situations where one intentionally wants significant areas of solid black, mostly that's a result of inattention and/or undeveloped skills. <br><br> One suggestion for shadow detail is to print with a relatively soft filter on multigrade paper, then just enough with a #5 or so to get D-Max somewhere in the image. Of course, the detail has to be in the negative in the first place. <br><br> As for the cropping debate, my view is that cropping when you release the shutter is an excellent discipline. But if you can improve the image in the darkroom or on the computer by cropping further, go for it. The viewer only sees the final result and could care less what's on the original frame. Unless you're shooting for the 0.00001% of the population who are purists. <br><br> Cheers, <br><br> Adam Sacks - Lexington, MA <br><br> P.S. - I'm just starting with photo.net and haven't posted anything yet. But some samples of my work, if you're interested, are on my climate blog at <a href="http://www.constitution411.org/climate">www.constitution411.org/climate</a>. I only do digital these days. <br><br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael s. Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Now, Edward -- be honest: You snuck out onto the street <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/6122753>once</a> or <a href=http://www.photo.net/photo/5897700>twice</a> before, didn't you ? :-) <p> Good story on meeting Gilden out there.<p> I'd say you're off to a very good start. In your new street folder, I liked 2 of them quite a bit: the one of the teenage fans and the eye contact shot of the youngster in line.<p> While it is true that there are some photographers who must not/do not/will not crop their spontaneous street photos, no matter what, I am not among them.<p> But I don't sweat it. Neither, for example, is Fan Ho, whose (sometimes heavily cropped) <a href=http://www.modernbook.com/fanho/images.htm> images of Hong Kong in the 1950's and 60's</a> are in my opinion breathtaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad_ Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 >>> John Elder, where may I see some of your photos? Ray, you somehow need to channel into his dreams... www.citysnaps.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamkatia Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Re: cropping.<br> I don't think there is any 'right' or 'wrong' here.<br> Some people think cropping is fine and some don't.<br> But i think that superior photographers make their photos in frame<br> with no need or desire to crop. <br> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Michael. Nope. Last weekend was the first time ever. But years of PJ weddings seem to have paid off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 OK, I've done some dog photos. Not quite the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Adam, I think that's the downside to Diafine. No shadow details at all. Anyone have suggestions of a film/dev combo that will shoot 1600 without serious grain and not block up the shadows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 I have chosen to stick with film and to print conventionally in the darkroom. My time is limited, and I would rather make a wet print from film in the darkroom than sit at my computer scanning film. Just because I don't post doesn't mean I can't shoot. I have nothing to prove on photonet. There are many photogs who choose not to post here, or anywhere. One of these days i will have a web site. What I really want to do is scan my prints instead of scanning my negatives. However my smallest prints are 8x12 on 11x14 paper which can only be scanned on a flatbed scanner costing more than $1000.00 and weighing about 25 pounds. Its not worth it to me at the moment. I'm to busy shooting and printing. The people who mention my not posting, why do you care? You obviouly assume that I'm a lousy photographer because I don't post on the internet. So, why would you want to see my stuff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Anyway, why should I show my photographs for free? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_elder1 Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Micheal S : thanks for the Fan Ho link. Some great shots there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orvillerobertson Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks for the detailed explanation, Edward. Keep up the extraordinary start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cblkdog Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Boy, John, you must be great. I'm surprised I've never heard of you. Sounds like you wrote the book on photography. Edward, keep it up. You're off to a good start.My favorite is TriX or Neopan 400 in d76. You have to play with it a bit but thats the fun part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmwhee Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 Edward, With regard to film/developer combinations, I have shot hp5 developed in hc110 (keeps forever) at 400, 800, and 1600 with good results. It's my favorite film. I'd be interested in hearing how you like it. Bill W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wmwhee Posted October 22, 2007 Share Posted October 22, 2007 David<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ned1 Posted October 22, 2007 Author Share Posted October 22, 2007 Thanks guys. Next weekend I'll try pushing Tri-X with Rodinal + 50. If it looks OK I'll post some examples. Bill, once my bulk roll of Tri-X has run out I'll try HP5 in hc110. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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