amy cupp Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 Although I am still new and contributed to posting a lot of the 1st wedding what do I do posts, etc... I have been spending much more time on another forum. I was just wondering this week where all the excitement is in this forum.I think I still have a lot to learn, but I like to get inspiration from seeing other peoples work and their styles as well. I can see how the more experienced people may get burnt out with all of the repetative posts. I would like to see more of an sharing experience. I miss the Photoshop challenges and getting other peoples input on different shots and what they would do with it. Can we bring the Photoshop challenge back? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfidaho Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I think people should be encouraged to search for information, but this industry moves pretty fast, and information can go out of date in a hurry. What was hot a year ago might not be so hot now. I wouldn't mind having several new forums, isolated from the main forum somehow: 1. I just shot my first wedding, whaddya think? 2. I'm just about to shot my first wedding, help! 3. Please critique my website. 4. What's the best lens for my (insert camera name here)? 5. What do you think of software product X? Bin those separately, and what's left will probably be more interesting reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurenm Posted October 14, 2007 Share Posted October 14, 2007 I'll echo what many have said as far as boredom. Yes, there have always been and will always be 'what lens to buy' questions, but it used to be that there was a balance of more advanced questions mixed in. Maybe those more experienced have not been chiming in? I agree with Kari on the fear of saying the wrong thing. Seems at times opinions are taken the wrong way and a discussion turns bad quickly. I've also become afraid of asking questions even if I can't find answers in the archives. I recently posted and got a response from one person. Maybe it was a dumb question or people didn't agree with my idea but I wish some had at least said so. As for the "first wedding" and similar posts, I have posted some myself and also tried very hard to critique. I usually don't feel experienced enough to critique and if I don't get in quick someone has usually said what I would. I think it is nice for beginners to be able to ask for critique but I find that often, there isn't much critiquing but rather, "not bad", "great work", "Keep trying". On the occassion that one does give actual critique, they get blasted for it by either the OP or other members. personally, if I ask for critique, I am looking for what I did wrong or what I could work on which should help others of many levels if enough people actually discuss the photos. I wonder if there could be a section for wedding critiques which before posting would give some parameters, such as to expect and give actual constructive feedbackand to post enough images to tell the story but not so many as to bog down the critiquers. I agree it would be nice to have the "assignments" come back. Maybe even a beginner assignment and an intermediate or advanced level? Or maybe better put, a "challenge"? Finally, all things work in cycles, maybe this forum is going through some sort of cycle and will change. I notice some good posts since this one so hopefully you great pro contributors will stick around for the cycle to change! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill_mussett1 Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I am not a wedding photographer, but have enjoyed, learned from and sometimes even challenged by the many replies to the posts here and the other Wedding sub-forms. For example, I've favored existing light and likely would never have seriously considered learning the use of flash if I hadn't seen examples here of what can be achieved with knowledge and practice. I would hate to lose the contributions of the many pro's who share here regularly. My only suggestion regarding the repetitive posts Marc mentions is that they be answered by the forum moderator, directing the OP to search the subject and/or post link(s) to previously answered similiar posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted October 15, 2007 Author Share Posted October 15, 2007 Again, this is not a post designed to eliminate the basic questions that someone starting out legitimately wants and needs to know. It's a CHALLENGE to the membership to expand the content that is increasingly unchallenging. As far as quotes about "teaching' and the responsibility to deal with repetitive questions ... that's fine for "teachers" who are paid to deal with that aspect. This is a volunteer effort, not a paid career. Many more experience folks are quite busy being working photographers, and my concern is that they will just stop coming here ... thus diminish the knowledge base ... apparently I'm not alone in this observation given many of the other answers here. I like the notion forwarded by Nadine ... that the experienced people take up the challenge themselves. It's a two way street. I'll try a challenge, and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertshults Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I spend most of my time reading the "Philosophy of Photography" forum, as the issues covered there frequently provide the next best thing to a true fine art forum on this site. But, I often read the business and wedding forums as well. At this stage in my career, I find advice on the successful operation of a business more valuable than technical advice. Speaking of which...while typing that last sentence, my shiny, new copy of Lightroom just arrived. Time to start some serious organizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I found the Forum to be extremely valuable when I first joined and read most posts avidly and responded with enthusiasm. Later, I found that many would respond very negatively whatever the discussion was, or react badly to opposite advice given and it just became easier to stand back and be an occasional watcher. I do respect the long term, high volume contributors for their continuing effort and the difference they make for those starting in the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I find I am less enthused than a few years ago. Of course, I have not been around this forum as long as you Marc, so I can see that you would loose some of the zing that it first held for you. On the question of repetition I find it expected and not beyond repeating my answers from time to time. I do think there are many here who have come along in this industry from never having handled a MF or 35mm SLR before. I think these people have legitimately wanted to learn about their gear etc. and from those who have experienced the same gear. However, when it comes to basic photography, it does seem a little less than interesting as there are few questions about how to achieve a look or the thinking behind the shots shown. Of course, personally, I find the policy of only allowing images to be posted when there is a particular type of question to follow, a little limiting. I do understand the why, but it is limiting in terms of sharing/discussing stuff. I mean, if you post an image simply because you loved how it turned out, or just want a general critique etc. This type of post usually is more interesting to me because its VISUAL (hint) ;-). I often wander around other forums to see what is being discussed and find the majority of it in about three categories. Business, Art and Gear (not necessarily in that order). It occurs to me that some people are very interested in one part but not another. Not that this is the 'best' approach either, just thinking out loud. I like the challenge idea, but it would be great to have a place/sub-forum that was dedicated to that post/question type. That would make it easier to find the fun stuff I think. The negativity can get old but is not surprising. I think there is a trend in this day and age (generally) to think 'I know best' and we don't mind expressing things rather brashly at times to prove/enforce it. I hope I don't contribute to that feeling here, but if I do, I sincerely apologize to all. One thought I have had lately: What if we discussed the 'famous' wedding pros and the otherwise well known around here ones, whose work we all admire and aspire to. This might also lead to having some great views and ideas shared too. Discussion about their style and vision etc. Ok, now I am rambling, back to the ftp of my current album... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tana_d. Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 I'm a long time lurker who now owns a photography business (studio portraits). I use to come to this forum daily to pick up helpful tips, not only about photography itself, but about the business side too. Although I'm not a wedding photographer, the info I've learned here has helped me tremendously. What I would find most helpful and interesting is not only tutorials , but also if members would occasionally post photos and detail the lighting and the camera settings that were used. I remember a post Marc made a while back about the backlit wedding from hell (strong sun, lots of fill flash). I learned so much from the photo and the questions and discussion that followed. While I don't have any desire to do weddings, I would like to learn how to take photos indoors using natural light and/or flash (not studio strobes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie_caswell Posted October 15, 2007 Share Posted October 15, 2007 Can we start a thread asking for members to come up with a suggested list of tutorials? Then choose one to start at the beginning of each month? Then maybe stash them in a tutorial folder for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el_fang Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 <i>How can we improve this forum's value to all participants?</i> <p>Two things I can think of right off the bat:</p> <p>1) Allow posting of photographs, basically ad lib as long as your photographs are relevant to weddings/events, and you are not misrepresenting work as your own when it really isn't. This is, after all, a <b>photography</b> forum (gasp/shock/horror).</p> <p> [<b>Moderator's note:</b> If you have a problem with forum moderation, you can raise the issue in the Site Feedback forum (which can be reached through the "Contact Photo.net" link at the bottom of every page). It is photo.net site policy that discussions of forum moderation are not allowed in the topical forums.]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamont Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 This would be the longest list of sensible, constructive, positive replies to any post I have seen on this forum. Well done everyone. Donald. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted October 16, 2007 Author Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'd have to admit that I agree with allowing more photos. I know this is an issue due to band width and I'm sure there are other reasons also ...but it is very difficult to get beyond simplistic gear questions ... and delve more into the creative part of this work without showing pictures. And now, most technical questions are answered with links to other tutorial sites, ocassionally accompanied by dismissive remarkes implying that no one on this site knows the answer ... thus eliminating that avenue of sharing one's experience. So what's left? Gear questions ... which lens should I get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zave_shapiro Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I've been coming to PN for years and lurking on this forum for a while. Seems to me everything goes in cycles, from the questions asked to the participants. As Brooks said, it's hard to elicit participation; although I really appreciated his (and Garry's) tutorials I don't have studio lighting and haven't gone digital. In terms of even lurking I only open threads with meaningful subject lines; and I really appreciate how often you've taken the time to explain how to deal with a challenge. And, folks, do check out Brooks' threads over in Lighting in the Administration archives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
think27 Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 With regard to images... There is a specific category for Wedding Images in the critique forum. Why not spend some time there? You are welcome to upload an image - ask for a critique and put a link to your folder asking for pros to comb through your work and give you feedback. Also when you go through and rate/critique wedding photos in the critique forum, usually that person will also check out your work and give you feedback. I've always found this to be an excellent way to learn. Please be sure to put in your comments after uploading that you are open to an honest critique. I've mentioned before that you all might want to start a No Words thread in the No Words forum and you can announce it here. You might pick a theme or just do a "This months favorite wedding shots". It is a great "show and tell" vehicle for you. Additionlly - Any member can start a specific topic and ask for examples from others to demonstrate inspiration or samples of a particular topic. We do ask that it not be "Show me your shots from last weekend's wedding...." for instance -- but -- more like: "Need ideas for groups on the alter in church" (no outdoor shots please ;-) - that happened once believe it or not. "Looking for good examples of dragging the shutter with technical details" "Looking for images of couples in the rain" "Need inspiration for more natural couple shots" etc etc... I could go on. These threads are allowed to not only be image heavy - but also you guys can post multiple images! Please only post wedding images or engagement shots. Engagement shots are really supposed to be in the Portrait Forum but since so many do these as part of a wedding package...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtrace Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I'm a lot more busy now shooting and doing other things and don't have the time or patience to post or read this forum too much. Not nearly as much time as I used to. And the posts I see are not just repetitive, but less interesting. I'm simply bored I guess, and not inspired. Bogdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtrace Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 Also, I've discovered better forums, that leave photo.net way behind. IMO, this site needs to be improved in many ways. You get what you pay for. Bogdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtrace Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 The fact that I can't edit my post above is just one silly shortcoming of this site. It's been brought up and ignored... I wanted to add and forgot, that I also now just simply refuse to reply to anyone that does not contribute the membership fee. Freeloading gets old..Newbie questions get old. Give me a good reason why one SHOULD do it Marc? Bogdan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wedding-photography-denver Posted October 16, 2007 Share Posted October 16, 2007 I am happy to contribute in both the financial sense and the community sense, however, I too feel like it could use some revamping before it dies off due to the lack of interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted October 17, 2007 Author Share Posted October 17, 2007 Good question Bogdan. That's what this thread is supposed to explore. Yet, this morning it had almost dropped off the activity list, which is once again topped by critique requests, which lens, etc. Maybe that's what this forum is destined to be, and more experienced folks will just rotate in, make a contribution, and rotate back out when it gets redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiva Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 My observation is that we've got ONE FORUM where ALL QUESTIONS are plopped onto for everyone to read. Simple solution: create a wedding forum but have it divided up to deal with "equipment", "vendors", "lighting", "processing", "review/critique my work" .... and so on. If you have a pizza and a wide variety of toppings but only offer ALL TOPPINGS on every pizza then the customer will become bored and shop elsewhere. It's just human nature. Organize the Forum ... it's just a big Plopping Ground right now. Gotta' run: I've got to sort through all the other plopped threads to find those I want to spend time reading! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy_elliott3 Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 This has been mentioned but let me reiterate - why can't the format be changed so recently added-on-to threads jump to the top of the list like very other forum I've ever visited? There must be a (badly, imho) thought out reason as it can't be the technology. Who has time to sift through pages to see if an interesting discussion has caught fire? That's close to a dealbreaker for me and a seemingly simple change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy cupp Posted October 17, 2007 Share Posted October 17, 2007 "With regard to images... There is a specific category for Wedding Images in the critique forum. Why not spend some time there? You are welcome to upload an image - ask for a critique and put a link to your folder asking for pros to comb through your work and give you feedback" quote from moderator... My posts were not asking specifically for critique of mine. I was asking for everyone's fave from those categories to try to lighten the subject matter. i just happened to go first and had several others showing their work too when I last viewed it. Rules are rules though so if it is not allowed at THIS forum then ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografz Posted October 18, 2007 Author Share Posted October 18, 2007 Amy Cupp, maybe that's just to broad and general. As Mary said, if you ask for ideas on shooting the cake cutting, or examples of different approachs to Formals, I think that would be "legal". Maybe even more abstract "creative" questions would be okay ... like, "How do you capture the decisive moments among all the chaos and required/expected shots? Post illustrative examples please." Amy Elliott, doesn't this forum do that? If you click on " New Answers" top right of the page, recently added to threads are featured in order of being added to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amy_elliott3 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Marc - I know about the new answers sorting option but most other forums do this automatically, allowing the less popular threads to naturally sink off the main page. I think that's far preferable - especially to newcomers who want to see what a forum really is about. Also, I don't believe you're able to edit posts once posted (or if you can it's been too hard for a simpleton like me to figure out.) These are just little things that add up to make this a less user-friendly and easily navigateable forum than others I've visited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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