How do I deal with Bright lights in a dark scene.

[mike_boulrice]

Ok I am a begging B&W photo student, so forgive me if my terminology of things

isnt the best. Basically the problem I have is trying to maintain detail in a

scene when there is a bright light throwing off the light meter. I am doing a

sequence shot of myself cleaning my room, however in order to get a good shot

my camera is positioned so that a window is facing it. My room is dark red so

it is dark when compared to the window. Is there a way I can preserve the

detail of my room without getting too much bloom from the window. Im not sure

if I should just go with what the light meter is telling me, or if I should

increase the time and then just burn in the window during processing. If you

dont understand what I am trying to do I will try to make myself clearer. Also

I am using 100 speed Kodak Tmax film if that is relevant, and my apeture is at

8.

[jtdnyc]

Try metering for the part of the scene that doesn't include the window, and then reducing development by maybe 20% as a starting point.

 

The increased exposure should give you detail where you want it, while the decreased development should limit the bloom from the window.

 

Good luck!

[mike_boulrice]

Thanks.

[ronald_moravec1]

This is where digital comes in.

 

Scan the neg twice, once for the room, once to get detail in the window. Move the dark room on top of the window holding down the shift key.

 

Do it right, and it will look like you made a perfect burn mask.

 

Wet darkroom, do what Jonathan said. You might try burning the room with a higher contrast filter to perk it up. Also do a just less than threshold burn on the print and the window will come in better. Called flashing.

[robert lee]

Yes, try what Jonathan suggested. Look up contraction film development (or the zone system) if you want to get into more detail.

 

Google for contrast mask for what to do at when printing. The B&W negative can hold a huge range of brightness values, but this won't translate to print without additional work.

 

Contrast masking is best done in the digital darkroom now: simply duplicate layer, invert, blur, then overlay. Adjust opacity to taste.

[keith_lubow]

Two images merged into one is thoroughly unnecessary and takes away what I consider to be the most important aspect of photography: that it captures a single period of time. Your photos would mean absolutely nothing to me if you combine exposures simply to overcome a technical concern, as opposed to incorporating it as part of your concept, which I find acceptable. Your mileage may vary, but it is good to consider where you stand in regards to these things.

 

What I would do if I wanted to use only ambient light, is I would meter the room and write down the exposure. Then see how many stops away the window reading is, and write that exposure down. Make sure either aperture of shutter speed is the same on both readings, so you can easily tell how many stops apart they are. I would try to expose in such a way that the room was no more than 1.5 stops underexposed from ITS reading, and the window was no more than 2.5 stops overexposed from ITS reading. If in order to expose the room at 1.5 stops under the reading, the window goes out of the range of two stops over its meter reading, all you have to do is reduce your development time. Try - 40% for approx. two stops on most b/w films. Approx - 25% for one stop. Favor shadow detail over highlight detail, because you can't get any shadow detail back after exposure, but you can highly control highlight detail in development and printing.

 

We could get into way more detail than that. There are so many personal variables, though. Do you want your room bright or dark? The darker you want your room, the easier this will be on you. Time of day matters. Can you light the room with artificial light at all? (That would absolutely be the easiest option here.)

 

You can also put large ND gel sheets outside of the window.

 

This is why photography is fun to me. SO many options. It's all about visualization and problem solving.

 

Keith

[luke_ballard]

I saw that someone above said to burn in the window (WET DARKROOM) with a higher contrast filter..actually that will do just the opposite...remember adding contrast makes whites more white and blacks more black..if you want to burn in a blown out window, turn your filter to 0 if it has the dial contrast filters, meaning don't use any contrast, that will darken it..if you raise the contrast to a high contrast filter and burn, you will just make the white get even more white and burning is less effective.

 

Luke

[keith_lubow]

Luke is right...you usually go to a LOWER contrast filter to burn in a blown-out highlight, to get more separation the high tones.

 

Not just any filter of lower contrast, though; but the one that provides the contrast you want in the highlights. Do a test printing just the window area to see which contrast you like the best for the window, then use that filter to burn it in.

 

As mentioned above, you will have to burn FAR less and be able to do it more seamlessly if you reduce your highlights with development.

 

Keith

[gnashings]

Aside from the fact that I am becoming a huge fan of every bit of advice Mr Lubow provides, I wanted to add that this is something you may want to try some experiments with - definitely being mindful of time of day (as has already been pointed out), I am sure this issue will be lesser when the sun is not directly at the window. Overcast days may be perfect. I also thought red room - try a red filter... but I think the extreme contrast issues this would cause would far outweight the brightening of the red room... Still, it may look intersting.

[kin_lau]

A dark red filter would work very well. It was also recommended in one of the Ansel Adams books. There was a nice series showing the effects with various filters and red worked very well.

 

Light from outside is often bluish. A red filter will block alot of it.

[cj_bas]

The solution is fairly simple and can be done without digital retouching.

 

Rate you film 1/4 normal. That is, if you usually expose that film at 400, expose it at 100. Then reduce development by 65-75%. If this would result in development times shorter than 4 or 5 minutes, reduce the strength of the developer to get up back up to a usable development time.

 

And, use a compensating developer; Rodinal, FG-7, HC-110, or similar.

 

You will be giving ample exposure to your dark room, but holding back on the development of the bright window. The compensating developer will stop acting on the bright window while still developing the dark room.

 

Taking this method to further extremes can alolow you to photograph a night scene, with the light source in the scene (street lights etc.) and get details in the shadows and mid tones without the highlights blooming.

[keith_lubow]

DO NOT use a red filter! That is a really bad bit of advice. That will make a contrasty scene go totally over the top contrast wise.

 

DO NOT rerate your film! It is unnecessary and makes no sense. Just use your meter as a guide. It tells you how to make middle grey, and you adjust off of that. The arrow doesn't have to match up with the middle (which is all that rerating your film will do for you).

 

Keith

[kin_lau]

Red filter... yes, what horrible advice. You'd figure people would actually try it before recommending something wouldn't you.

</p>

You can probably find lots of circumstances where it won't work, and lots of circumstances where it will work.

</p>

Here's a few shots taken this morning -it's foggy out, hence the lack of details outside the window, but you can check the exposure of the balcony railing and ceiling. Notice how the red filter actually equalizes the amount of light coming in from the outside. I have a halogen lamp on inside the apt at this point.

</p>

with no red filter<div></div>

[kin_lau]

Now with a red filter.<div></div>

[kin_lau]

Now with a dark red filter - exposure looks to be about 1/2 stop higher outside too.<div></div>

[keith_lubow]

What'd you take them with? How did you process them and scan them? Why did you leave the 2900K (red-orange) light bulb on? What color are your wallpaper and paint? Why is the bightest shot also brighter outside? This is crazy talk, Kin. Red filters lighten red on the print. That's it.

 

Keith

[kin_lau]

Keith,

 

It's a halogen lamp, clearly stated in my post. Not red-orange 2900K, just a regular household halogen lamp - not tungsten. Colour temp is more like 4000K. Like most people, if it's dark inside, I turn on the light. Not a very far-fetch concept is that? Either way, shot #1 clearly shows how much of a difference in light levels there is inside vs outside.

 

It's 1/2 a stop brighter in the last scene, also clearly stated - look at the railing outside.

 

My walls are white. The OP's walls are dark red (clearly stated in his 1st post) and a red filter would make his walls lighter, which is exactly what he is asking for... you might have missed that.

 

There's no wallpaper, it's a painting on the right wall, colours are blue and gray.

 

A red filter makes red lighter, and makes blues darker - how do you make the blue sky go almost black on a sunny day.... use a polarizer and a dark red filter. This is very basic, nothing advanced.

 

All I did here was to prove that it works. You have a digital camera my friend, go try it! It would take only a few minutes. The basic principles are the same.

[keith_lubow]

You are arguing to increase contrast in a situation where high contrast is the problem. You argue to use a high contrast filter, then test it with a warm light source to try to prove your point. Halogen bulbs are not 4,000K. Most are around 3,000K, and they are about 3,400K at max. Whatever you are on, you have to warn me so I stay away from it. You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

Keith

[kin_lau]

Please refrain from personal attacks Mr Lubow. I've treated you with courtesy.

 

What is high contrast - you need to analyse the situation instead of using a blanket statement? What does a red filter do if the scene truly is only black and white like text?

 

Red increases contrast only certain circumstances... see above.

 

What does a red filter do in a scene that's predominantly red and blue? What about dark red and bright blue? So what about a dark red room and a bright blue sky?

 

Please show me where the the OP (Mike Boulrice) say that you cannot light the inside of the room with incandescent lighting? There's no such restriction.

[keith_lubow]

Idiocy is not courtesy, Kin. You are turning an issue of contrast into an issue of hue. You did not fix the problem of blown out highlight in the slightest! All you did was lighten certain colors. You cannot test this with an additive process such as digital, where you cannot effectively control highlight values after the fact. Now, why don't you try my suggested method with your digital and see what happens.

 

Keith