More Doom and Gloom Chronic Depression?

[john_kasaian2]

In light of recent posts regarding old line photographic suppliers suffering from digitalis---ending or cutting back on the production of traditional photographic materials in favor of digital, especially "Old Yeller" --- I was wondering if anyone knows what Agfa's commitment to LF and traditional photography is? 8x10 and other sizes except for 4x5 in Agfa film have long been discontinued(in the US anyway) Their website appears to be ultra hyped on their digital products with no mention(I least I couldn't find it) of their celebrated elixir "Rodinal." Could Big Orange be today where Kodak's marketing people say Old Yeller is headed in their reputed five year plan? Or will Agfa grab the LF baton when Kodak stumbles? Any thoughts?

[mark_nowaczynski2]

Don't be so negative- Ilford is strongly commited to large format B&

W film. In fact they have expanded the availability of extra large

film sizes for ultra large format users. They commonly stock 4X5,

8X10, and 11X14 film and will supply an array of larger sizes on

request.

[bill_jefferson]

Hi All,

Are you aware, that in manufacturing that, The original suppliers

of chemicals, no longer make the chemical needed for film, paper, and

developer. also, chemicals produced today are purer that years ago,

and are harder to work with. Machinery, wears out and the older

technology that built it no longer exists, parts impossible to

obtain. New machinery a lot built inhouse, as there is no on shelf

inventory of what companys need for there unique product line. Every

one that makes film, is going thru the same thing, we just do it

differently from each other.

Bill

[mark_parsons1]

That explains a lot. Seriously.

[terrance_blomgren]

Its a matter of economics. Market profits can not be sustained

forever. This is why a new markets(digital) have been created. Some

film manufactuers are slowly reducing their exposure to the old

economics or products for more profitable ones. Does this mean that

older technology products will dissapear. No! Howerver your loyalty

to a specific product may have to re-considered. The world is a large

place. Ckeck it out.

[arthur_gottschalk]

Unlike traditional photography, the digital industry runs on built-in

obsolesence. New chips, new software, new editions of old software,

new and ever smaller computer designs, etc. Digital is a gravy train

for manufacturers. Their joy is a never ending cycle of new products.

As practitioners of traditional photography, we are fast becoming

antiquarians. I suggest that we embrace that fact. Like with other

forms of fine-art "printmaking," supplies will remain available, if

only by mail from small manufactures, and new cottage industries

serving our needs will most likely come into being.

[andrew_held]

Just because a technology is no longer growing, or even declining,

does not mean that firms cannot profit from serving them. What

typically happens is that the production and marketing shifts from

large public corporations that require high and rapid return on

investments to privately-owned firms that are flexible enough to

generate long-term sustainable revenues from older technologies. As

it becomes difficult to manufacturer film on a giant volume basis,

smaller firms will develop the tooling and machining to produce it

profitably, and probably better, on a smaller scale.

 

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Remember, what will sustain traditional photography is the fact that

it is not merely a commercial/industrial market. There is significant

involvement of craft workers (in the traditional sense of the word),

and artists. It is these workers who will sustain the market (albeit

smaller). The key to the sustainability of a market is not growth

alone, but value. It is craft and fine art, not commercial users who

create the highest value end of the traditional photography market.

Sailing vessels ceased to be a serious commercial product 100 years

ago, yet there are probably as many sail-powered boats and suppliers

than ever before. I would guess that manufacturers in this business

make more money, not less, on a margin basis than in the heyday of

sail. The same could probably be said for bicycle and analog watch

makers.

 

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Lastly, everyone assumes that new technology is always superior to

old - that is often not the case. Some technologies trump older ones

because manufacturers can save costs. In the case of photography,

traditional materials and techniques will remain because it will

always generate products that are intrinsically different than

digital. I think it is clearly true that digital photography is not

a perfect substitute for conventional photogrphy - they both have

their strengths and will increasingly diverge as digital imaging

comes into its own instead of following in the path of traditional

photography. The value placed on traditional photography, and its

inherent uniqueness will sustain it for a long, long time.

[bill_marsh]

Since you mentioned Agfa, thought you might find this email from them interesting. It concerns a film I was

using to make interpositives for enlarging 8x10 negs for platinum. For what it's worth:

 

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Subject:

GO230p

Date:

Thu, 7 Feb 2002 15:04:06 -0500

From:

bruce.vir.b@us.agfa.com

To:

redcloud54@earthlink.net

 

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Bill,

 

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Sorry, the product GO230p in no longer available. It was a film with a variable

gamma emulsion. Contrast could be altered with blue or yellow filtered light. It

was ideal for continuous tone gravure, for enlargements, to make standardized

contone positives from non-standardixed contone negatives.

 

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It was a 7mil thick material that was processed in a Continuous Tone developer

like G7C.

 

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We do not have a direct replacement for this material anymore since the demand

is no longer there.

 

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Regards

Bruce Vir

Senior Support Engineer

 

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Have to rethink my whole process now, I guess. Time marches on.

 

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Bill

[john_kasaian2]

It seems like "Agfa" might be how the Dutch spell "Kodak"(Or is it

German?)----John