white balance and soft boxes

[rascal64]

I have already read one thread on this subject. I am not sure if my question

has already been addressed. At the risk of redundancy...

I shoot primarily studio portraits with a single large softbox. My editing

software is Elements 5.0. My camera's white balance has been at "AUTO". Should

I be shooting it in "FLASH" mode? The manual said that this mode is just for

camera mounted flash. Or should I be dialing in a custom setting (if so, how is

that accomplished)? Or should I leave it in AUTO and adjust my lighting

accordingly?

Any suggestions or guidelines would be (as always) welcomed and appreciated.

[Matt Laur]

Are you shooting in RAW mode, or are you having your camera create JPG files as you shoot? If the former, then you can correct (or alter to taste) WB all day long after the fact. If the latter, then certainly at least set the in-camera WB to the flash mode.

[ellis_vener_photography]

It is impossible for a manufacturer to predict a.) what lmake of flash you are goign to use with your camera beyond their own testing with their own units. b.) how you will modify the light wit ha gel, a diffusion unit, an umbrella or a softbox.

 

This is likewise true of iamge procesign software

 

For these reasons you are much better off using something liek a WhiBAl aor gretag MAcbeth Color Checker ain a test shot, shooting "raw" and doign a custom white balance in Photoshop, Photoshop Lightroom, Bibble or Capture One, etc.

 

Of course this also presupposes that your monitor is accurately calibrated and profiled so that you see on screen is an accurate representation of the image.

[ellis_vener_photography]

Andrew Rodney has a terrific article on what is really meant by accurate color in the October 2007 issue of Professional Photographer magazine.

[craig_shearman1]

Studio strobes (and camera mounted flash units) are color balanced for daylight and pretty much always have been, going back to the days of film when the only color temp/white balance choices were daylight and tungsten. So set the white balance on your camera to either daylight or flash, or if it gives you Kelvin color temperatures use 5500 (anywhere from 5500-6000 is "daylight"). I would shoot a few test shots at each of these -- daylight, flash and 5500 -- and see which you like best. They should be pretty close but there could be a little variation. I would avoid auto white balance in the studio because it's going to try to guess at the proper white balance with each and every frame you shoot, and you are very likely to get inconsistent results from frame to frame. Personally, I never use auto white balance because the camera has no way of knowing the color of your subject and is really just guessing at the proper setting. (A very educated guess given today's automation and it sometimes comes incredibly close, but still a guess.) Outdoors or under hot lights you can do a manual white balance, where you fill the frame with a white piece of paper and hold down the button until it finds the white balance, then store that. That's the way video people do it. But I don't believe you can do that with flash because the flash doesn't last long enough for the white balance to take place. And as Matt suggested, if you shoot RAW you can still tweak after the fact, although it's good practice to come as close to right as you can from the beginning.

[ronald_moravec1]

To get it perfect, follow the "custom white balance" instructions for your camera. You photograph a white board under your lights and define that as white. The camera takes care of the rest, raw or JPEG.

They will be perfect.

[giggles]

Shoot in RAW but you will first need a RAW editing software. If you shoot in RAW, you can always adjust your white balance on each image in the computer. I set my WB on flash when in the studio but sometimes they still need a little tweaking. Good luck.

[Bill C]

>> My camera's white balance has been at "AUTO". Should I be shooting it in "FLASH" mode? The manual said that this mode is just for camera mounted flash. Or should I be dialing in a custom setting. <<

 

Tiffany, I don't know what camera you're using, but if you are shooting jpegs then certainly a custom white balance would be terrifically helpful. The exact method depends on the camera, but typically it would involve you tripping the shutter/flash while a white or gray test card is filling your frame. You might have to select a captured image to use for the white balance. Then the camera would ask you to confirm. If you say OK, it begins using the new settings on every additional photo you take. As a note, some cameras need you to change another menu option to specifically begin using the custom white balance.

 

Contrary to Craig's idea that flash is too short, no, custom white balance should work fine. After all, the camera can capture an image under flash, right? If the flash is not too short to get an image, it ought to be fine for white balance (and it is, trust me on this).

 

FWIW, one reason why you might want to NOT use the built in daylight or flash setting is that your soft boxes (a combination of the insides plus the diffusion panel(S)) typically shift the color a bit. Some may yellow over time. Using a custom white balance under the exact same light you'll shoot with can exactly compensate for this.

 

Do you know how to read the pixel values using elements? Looking at your images, you expect the RGB values to be almost the same on your white card. For example, one spot might read 240, 241, 239, another spot might read 232, 233, 232, etc. This would confirm that the you got the custom white balance done properly.

 

Looking at some of your images, I think you may be pleasantly surprised at the results from custom WB. Good luck!

[beauh44]

Hi Tiffany,

 

If you shoot in RAW you can "change your mind" after the shot on the WB. I usually find that nudging the color temperature slider a bit left or right in ACR will usually get things very close.

 

Lee Varis's book "Skin" has an excellent (but a bit technical) way to profile your camera for good skin tones.

 

You'll probably want to invest in a colorimeter to profile your monitor so you'll be able to tell when things are "right".

 

Last point: Sometimes the "white" cover on a softbox can fade and/or yellow a bit from exposure to sunlight, smoke, etc., which can cause a slight yellowing. This can drive ya' nuts getting the colors right if it happens. If it does, you'd want to replace that part of your softbox. Good luck!

[scottferris]

okay, after reading this thread I decided to check out the custom white balance on my Nikon D1. My problem is that for some reason, when setting the white balance using a white sheet of paper, the strobes don't time correctly. It sets the white balance for the paper using only the modeling lamps, and not the light from the strobes. Any ideas?

[beauh44]

That's weird - are you perhaps using a really long shutter speed while shooting the paper? You might try the fastest synch speed that your camera supports. I guess the camera's "seeing" the modeling light in the instant before the flash fires, maybe? (Not a Nikonian) Anyhoo, flash is usually ~5500K as is broad daylight, so you might get pretty close doing a custom white balance outdoors on a sunny day. Again, if you can shoot RAW you can set the white balance after the shot. Good luck!

[rascal64]

Thank you everyone for the very thorough and helpful responses. This definitely will take a bit of work. My first attempt at simply changing to "flash" mode on the menu brought about very warm/red tones and a complete lack of highlights. I have heard that the D70 favors reds. This exercise prooved it. I will delve into this further.

[Bill C]

>> This definitely will take a bit of work. My first attempt at simply changing to "flash" mode on the menu brought about very warm/red tones and a complete lack of highlights. <<

 

Tiffany, not so much work once you understand what is going on. But I fear you may be off on a wild goose chase. The "lack of highlights" is more likely an exposure issue. The assumption that a soft box produces 5500 K is not too safe, either.

 

Let me again suggest that you custom white balance. If you don't want to, at least shoot a white card and read the pixel values. If the red, green and blue values are not equal to each other (within 1 or 2) then, ... well, you already know what I have to say.

 

On a slightly different note, how do you evaluate that the tones are warm, etc? Strictly by monitor appearance? There are better ways. If you want to post an image (feel free to email one if you'd like) I'll give you an opinion. Hopefully a portrait style where they're holding up some white paper (several sheets stacked together). Even better, holding a Macbeth color card, if you own one (ohterwise don't bother).

 

ps, I don't know Nikons, but reviews indicate that there are tone controls that let one bias the color. You didn't accidentally set one of these, did you?

[matias_orchard]

[Do you know how to read the pixel values using elements? Looking at your images, you expect the RGB values to be almost the same on your white card. For example, one spot might read 240, 241, 239, another spot might read 232, 233, 232, etc. This would confirm that the you got the custom white balance done properly.]

...

[Let me again suggest that you custom white balance. If you don't want to, at least shoot a white card and read the pixel values. If the red, green and blue values are not equal to each other (within 1 or 2) then, ... well, you already know what I have to say.]

 

Bill, would you please explain how to correctly check the white balance?

 

 

Many thanks!

 

MO

[Bill C]

>> Bill, would you please explain how to correctly check the white balance <<

 

Matias, just to be clear, the camera manufacturer's do NOT specfify a way to CHECK the white balance (not that I know of, anyway). They just presume that you have properly followed the procedure. Note: often the camera will report either success or failure at custom white balancing, but not always.

 

Here's what I would do after setting a custom white balance in, for example, a studio setup. First, find a suitable white or neutral test card, then photograph it under the same lighting as the subject. Then, load the image into a program such as Photoshop where you will be able to read the pixel values. Finally, read some average RGB values on the test target. If your prior custom white balance was successful, you should find that the RGB readings at a particular spot are almost equal to each other. Here's an example: if I found values of R=233, G=228, B=234, then I would REDO the custom white balance. This is because the G value is 5 or 6 different from the other two. Some people might be ok with this, but I think you could get closer.

 

If your pixel values are above 240 or so, you lose some precision in comparing the numbers. In this case, I'd reduce the exposure a bit to get the numbers lower. Again, this is only to verifythat white balance is ok; after checking, set your exposure wherever you like.

 

Maybe I should state that this is for shooting to jpegs while using either sRGB or Adobe RGB (1998) as your camera's color space.

[matias_orchard]

Thanks, Bill. I guess GIMP will also have pixel reading... :-p

 

So, if I understood you correctly, and use a 18% gray card, and follow the custom WB correctly, I should read almost equal values for a particular spot on this card. If am able to confirm/manage the settings under which the custom WB is correctly set, then I will use that procedure for the future... ;-)

 

 

Cheers,

 

MO

[Bill C]

Matias, right.

 

BTW, I saw photo link you posted in another thread, with photos of your daughters. The color balance is really yellow! Your camera can do LOTs better if you get it white balanced.

 

Here's how I would do it for those photos. First, I read that you use Canon 30D. I would set the 30D camera for manual exposure, jpeg output in sRGB space, and picture style = Faithful with settings = 1, 0, 0, 0. This picture style should work decently for daylight portraits with a wide range of complexions.

 

For the custom white balance, if you don't have a good target, get 2 or 3 sheets (stacked together) of typing or copy machine paper. These almost certainly contain brighteners, which you don't really want, but are probably adequate. Put the paper where the subject will be. Take a test exposure where the paper is not fully white, but perhaps 2/3 or 3/4 of the way to the right side on your histogram. Use this image for your custom white balance (check the Canon user manual for exact instructions.

 

Now, make some exposure test and adjustments, using the same target. With white paper, frontally lit in a the style of a conventional portrait, you ought to get pixel values (with the Canon jpeg picture style I said) of roughly 230 to 240 (where RGB are equal). If you don't have a way to read pixel values, try to get the right hand peak of your histogram (it represents the white paper) very close to the right edge, but with a very slight gap.

 

Finally, shoot a couple tests with a person. I think this will give you a good quality baseline; once you have this, you can experiment to your heart's content.