Looking for a backup camera........

[elnoralouisa]

I am from another world (that would be Pentax K10D), but I am looking for a

second camera, as I have been doing a few weddings, and events that should my

camera die or something, it would be ugly. My choices are between the D40X,

the D80, and the D200 (ouch on the price). I also have a lens question.

 

First, I have a co-worker that just bought the D40X. Before she bought it, I

had went through a Nikon catalog with her, and chose the D80 for her. I

wasn't aware that the X had come on the market yet. The camera store said the

D40X was better, so that is what they sold her. Also, I had suggested a zoom

lens that would cover more distance (sorry, not sure which lens it was), but

once again they said no, and sold her two lenses, saying the one lens wasn't

worth the price. I think because there were no prices in the book, I might

have chose the 18-200 lens, which now I know is a bit costly.

 

My question would be on lenses, I don't see the VR lens in the wider angle

lengths. Why? I have Image Stablization in-camera on the Pentax, but why

doesn't Nikon have it on the shorter mm lenses. Isn't it necessary?

 

For the cameras, I just can't find a comparsion chart that says much of

anything, other than the D200 is made of metal. Seems alot of money just for

the switch to metal. I know the 40x doesn't work with old lenses. I don't

have any, so not a problem.

[sam_thompson2]

You should get the same brand or ones that take the same lenses of camera as a backup. You should look into getting a Samsung or another Pentax camera.

 

Camera store lied. The D80 is better than the D40x but its true usually two lenses are better than one however like you mentioned. VR is more useful at longer lengths because at longer lengths you will notice the shake more.

 

D40x also won't auto focus with many current lenses. If are doing weddings you should just get yourself another K10D unless you are willing to switch systems.

[stwrtertbsratbs5]

Maybe I'm missing something here. You seem to be intent on buying into another system. For backup, why not buy another Pentax body? Then you wouldn't have to buy duplicate lenses.

 

As for image stabilization - it's not really needed on wide lenses. Recall that the rule of thumb for shake-free 35mm images was that your shutter speed should be at least 1/(focal length). That would mean that you could easily hand-hold a 35mm lens at 1/30. For smaller sensors, plan on 1/60.

[ShunCheung]

Unless you intend to gradually migrate to Nikon, your backup camera should be as close to your primary as possible. At a minimum, it should use the same set of lenses as your primary and secondly, ideally it should share the same accessories such as flash, batteries, memory cards, etc. I too would suggest getting another Pentax DSLR body as a back up.

 

Camera stores tend to recommend the products that maximize their profit. The 18-200 AF-S DX has been very hot and extremely hard to find. While the supply situation for that lens has improved, perhaps that store didn't have it in stock and therefore recommended what they had at that time.

[elnoralouisa]

Nope, not interested in buying any more Pentax. My dream camera when I was looking was the D80, but was talked into buying a Pentax. I need a second camera, and now is my chance (and excuse!) to finally get what I want.

Actually, the final straw was I just had to request a refund from a nationally known person doing a seminar here, because their info in their seminar didn't support Pentax.

Too afraid to ask these questions at the camera store because I will walk out with a new camera, so this way I can think awhile :)

[ShunCheung]

If a D200 is too expensive for you, I would get a D80.

[elnoralouisa]

Not so much the expense, but just didn't see that big of a difference in the two cameras, other than the plastic/metal thing. Thought it might be better to spend a bit more on lenses, as they do always say it's better to invest in the glass.

[g._v.]

The D200 is also 1/2 pound heavier than the D80. It makes a difference to me and I am a

5'10" male...

 

It sounds like that camera store is intent on selling what they have in stock and not what may

be the "best" camera for the customer.

[elnoralouisa]

Oh well, as far as the camera store goes, I have no clue why they sold her a DSLR in the first place, but they convinced her to buy it. I think a nice p&s would have been great for her. Haven't seen any pics yet.

[kbev]

I have a D70 (the D80's predecessor to some extent) There are a few things that are going to lead me to upgrade to the d200 beyond just the "plastic to metal thing"...

 

After shooting a lot more in the last year or so (both formal (weddings) - and informal (street)) There are 2 features of the D200 I like a lot more than the d80/70. I like having easier access to the ISO/WB settings. Having them on the back as "shared" buttons is a pain in the neck. I also like the option of having the battery grip with the extra release button.

 

There are a lot of little tweaks on the D200 that I never thought would be worth it.... Until I started shooting a bunch more than in the past.

[tonybeach]

"Not so much the expense, but just didn't see that big of a difference in the two cameras, other than the plastic/metal thing."

 

I'm not saying you shouldn't buy the D80 (you probably should), but there are several noticeable differences between the D200 and the D80. The D200 has:

 

5 fps (versus 3 fps with the D80).

 

A larger buffer (22 RAW versus 6 RAW with the D80).

 

More fine tunable AF.

 

Compatible with older non-CPU chipped lenses.

 

1/250 flash sync (versus 1/200 for the D80).

 

Maximum shutter speed of 1/8000 (versus 1/4000 for the D80).

 

More durable shutter.

 

MLU and Interval timer.

 

GPS compatible and PC Sync port.

 

More easily accessible controls on the outside of the camera instead of buried in the menu along with simultaneous display of ISO value and metering mode in the viewfinder.

 

4 Menu and 4 Shooting Banks, and a Recent Settings Menu.

 

Using the Shooting Banks, you can rename the files (to identify different users for instance), change Image Optimization settings, et al. Using the Menu banks you can change a host of other settings related to metering, the more sophisticated AF system, et al.

 

 

"Thought it might be better to spend a bit more on lenses, as they do always say it's better to invest in the glass."

 

All the features mentioned above will have no impact on image quality, better glass can have a profound effect. Frankly, IMHO that 18-200 lens is not a good choice for event photography.

 

Regarding using the D80 as a back-up for the Pentax, I suggest you sell your Pentax gear and buy two D80 camera bodies. As has been said numerous times already, the best back-up is another copy of the same camera body. Divesting yourself of your Pentax gear will give you more funds to purchase suitable lenses and accessories for your Nikon gear.

[nickc1]

I have the D40x, but then I don't do weddings - I bought it as an amateur camera - If I had to upgrade I would go fo the D200 for all of the reasons above. I suggest that you might want to consider your reasons for choosing the D80 over the D200 or D40 - the lens compatibility one is becoming less and less of an issue as more and more lenses are reissued with built in motors, and the total kit cost becomes similar if you go down the D200 and s/h non chipped lens route compared to the D80 with chipped lenses only, and you also gain the pro build and the other extra features.

[jim_simon6]

By most reports, the Pentax is supposed to be a very nice camera. If you're intent on moving to Nikon, then now is probably as good a time as any, I suppose. I'm assuming you're not heavily invested in Pentax glass at this point. Don't know too much specifically about which bodies are best (I shoot Canon) but the D80 looks better than the D40x, aside from megapixels (which aren't the ultimate deciding factor, anyway).

 

You're probably right in moving to Nikon if you're hoping to make money from this obsession. Pentax has some nice offerings, but Nikon (and Canon, I might add) have better systems for the professional user.

 

As far as lenses for weddings, I would think something like the 17-55/2.8 and 85/1.8 would make a good pair and cover most of your needs for now, along with a couple speedlights. Keep the Pentax for now as backup/ 2nd camera, and when you've earned a few dollars from your weddings, sell the K10d and whatever lenses you have to finance a 2nd Nikon body and maybe something like a 70-200/2.8.

 

Good luck, Jim

[todd peach seattle, washi]

A lot of folks won't use 5 frames per second in a continuous burst mode, so they're pretty quick to say "three is enough". One of the subtler things I've learned to value is how fast a camera cycles, even when I'm shooting single frame. The difference between a 3fps, 5fps and 8fps camera is pretty noticeable in the way they 'blink'.

 

If you're trying to capture a specific moment or expression with something like an 85/1.8 (where you're really dialed into the eyes for example) a fast camera makes a difference. A D200 is probably fast enough for most folks in this regard. I am of the opinion that the D80 is not fast enough.

[elnoralouisa]

Dave, right now, the Nikon would be a second camera, or the Pentax a second, whatever. Can't get rid of it at the moment anyway, because I have two events coming up, and even if I got a Nikon tomorrow (which I won't), I want a familiar camera for these events.

Yes, Jim, it's a VERY nice camera, but as people say, it's a system you are buying into. I am at the point where I would like to invest in some better lens, and a second body, and I just don't feel after keeping up with the rumor mill, and also like I said, Pentax is just excluded from so many learning opportunities and such, that I feel a slow move to Nikon is the way to go.

I just want to make sure that I get a camera that is as good as or better than the K10D as it IS a good camera. Don't want to step backward.

I have been on a D200 group for a few weeks, but left a week ago, because someone said that the D200 is not being supported by Nikon (they went to have one repaired). Now I can't find anything to support that, and it is listed as current on the website.

[stephen_kinosh]

Why not look at picking up a used D70 or 70s on E-bay or elsewhere. GOod values right now. They can be had for under 500.00.

I've been using one for 2 years adn have another coming from E-bay as a backup.

 

Steve

[heartyfisher]

"Pentax is just excluded from so many learning opportunities"

 

I dont understand this.. In my experience, most of the things to "learn" about photography is to do with lighting, aperture(DOF), shutter speed, ISO, Colour balance and Post Processing. These things are not unique to any brand of camera. The manual that comes with the camera is for the technical bits. I think your Pentax is a very capable camera and there is really no need to switch to nikon.( I use nikon gear because my whole family uses Nikon gear) The in camera IS is a real positive(lens cost) and nikon and canon does not have that!

 

What type of "Events" are you shooting and what lenses do you currently have?

 

TW

[heartyfisher]

Oh one more thing.. next round of Nikon products are rumored to be announced around middle of September.. so you may want to hold off buying a Nikon d200 for the moment as that is probably the model that will be replaced.. the D40x is a good choice if you want to get a nikon now, as that is the latest model and unlikely to be replaced very soon. Its also very capable in low light(event situations), probably the most capable low light consumer nikon.

[jim_momary]

Debbie, the choices are tough to make as $$$ is a concern. Some basics, shooting weddings is always a challenge, no opportunity for oops. As a result you must have good gear and know it inside/out, as you intimated. I think adding a second camera in a new family will cause you more angst than help. You will be duplicating focal lengths and have twice the load to carry; from lenses thru flashes.

 

OK, so what do I use for weddings; D200, 18-35mm 3.5, 50mm 1.8, 80-200mm 2.8, two SB-600 strobes, and assorted Cokin filters, brackets and etc. I shoot a lot with available light and like to keep the ISO low to avoid noise, hence the faster glass. Remember too, the Nikons all have 1.5 crop factor, i.e. a 50mm from 35mm film = 75mm on any DSLR.

 

My backup is a D100 (since I bought into that 3+ yrs ago) and also a couple of Nikon F4s bodies. I also drag my 20mm, 28mm AIS (super, super sharp), 50mm 1.2, 85mm 1.8, 70-210mm AFD, and a whole bag of cables and filters. Obviously I am a Nikon guy, but that is for quality, support and compatibility. I also still shoot a portion of my weddings with Mamiya RB67 gear, but must admit the D200 is slowly replacing the 6x7 negative I thought I would never give up on. My back and shoulders also say thanks. At 56 I am no longer concerned about status symbols, just what works and keeps on working. I never want to incur the ire of a former bride with no photos!

 

Every person will make recommendations hopefully in good faith. What works for me might seem silly to another or overkill. It is comforting to have digital as it gives instant confirmation of success, yes, I do chimp all the time. But, having used the F4s since 1992, they have become extensions of my eyes and fingers, functioning without thought. Therein is another reason I like the D200, even over my D100 or D80 and D40 that I have played with. There are more on deck controls for the really important stuff, no menu digging when everyone is tapping their toe. As said, custom menu entries can be saved for a variety of things, different lenses, to differing lighting modes.

 

Also, the 28 mm lens above is from two decades ago, and the D200 accepts it, albeit in manual focus mode, but metering is fine in Aperture mode. The point, older glass is still great glass and can be gotten for a song. Not just MF but also AF, it is fine on the D200, fast apertures, fast focusing and great photos. I have not handled a better digital camera than the D200. It is as good as the Nikon F4 was/is, it is the keystone of a fine system. OK, so you know my feelings. Now it boils down to cost and what you really need vs. think you need. No easy decision.

 

Your humble servant,

 

Jim M.

[elnoralouisa]

Ok, really don't have the time to explain everything. I spent the last few days going back and forth with our camera store and a nationally known seminar that will be here. Final decision was, the seminar people didn't feel that a Pentax person fit in their seminars, and they gave me a refund. Ouch! I have signed up for other classes for Pentax only, that have been cancelled, not enough people.

Yes, I have down the basics of photography, and I know those classes will take anyone, but when you start to get a bit specialized, and would like to know more about your camera, flash, etc., it would be nice to fit in. It's like people that don't use PS. They are a dying miniority. People talk about this and that in PS, and some people miss out because they are using something else.

I appreciate the comments. A lot to think about. Like I said, I do love Pentax, but not sure if investing any more money into my 'system' is the way I want to go.

I guess my big question was should I go with Nikon (and that isn't decided) what was the big difference between the D80 and D200? It just seemed like a big price difference if it was only metal/plastic difference. I will probably go to the camera shop at some point and check them both out, and leave the credit card at home!!! I prefer to buy online, but believe me this store has incredible sales people!

Oh, I guess I am a true 'freelance' photographer. I haven't found my 'calling' yet. I am done a few low budget weddings. I do NOT plan on being a wedding photographer, it would only be for smaller weddings once in a while, I have and will be doing a few Seniors, pet photography for a dog rescue, some events, babies, etc. etc. Flowers are good too :) So, need an all around camera.

[davemoss]

Debbie,

 

Slow down...Deep breath. First off, Pentax cameras are in no way inferior to the other two biggies. In fact, the K10D is so far advanced for its price range, that both ni and ca are having to rethink not only pricing, but what to offer in the way of SR. For what you paid for the K10D, neither nikon or canon have a comparable camera.

 

the d40/80s are no competition for the k10d. they are toys compared to it. the only nikon that is would be the d200, and you see what they cost. every camera, pro, semi, advanced amateur, or entry level, is going to have its quirks, and the k10d is no different. a faster flash sync speed, and more fps shooting would have been nice, but its construction and features are all first rate.

 

if you are debating bailing on the pentax over the perceived lack of quality lenses, then someone is bum steering you mightily. they may not be up on the super-zoom world (although they have just released one new one, and another later this year) their prime lenses are some of the best non-german lenses you could ever put in front of a sensor. nobody in their right mind would argue that the pentax primes are not some of the best ever made.

 

that, and you can use the vast array of legendary m42 SMC takumars with it too, all with the shake reduction built into he camera. and all the east german m42 lenses too. there is NO shortage of glass to use with the pentax cameras. no, the long end isn't as up to date as the others, but if shooting sports and stuff was your priority, then pentax should have never entered the equation.

 

and also keep in mind that many people go to the aftermarket lens companies for zooms and long telephotos anyway. now all the companies don't offer their lenses in pentax mounts, but enough do to get ANY job done.

 

realistically, if you need a backup, i'd get the k100d. not that many less features than the k10d, but it's housed in plastic, and has a more amateur-friendly menu system. actually, they are now shipping the k100d super, which has the sensor cleaning shaker too.

 

if you buy a d80, and get rid of the k10d, you will be sorry. i'm telling you that right now. get to know your camera, and you will grow to love it. think more like a film shooter. that's the way that camera was designed. there is nothing in its price range that comes close to it.

 

don't listen to the big two jaw jabbers! they will always make someone feel bad for not buying into the games they play ;=) in a year, when you have every nuance of that camera figured out, you will thank that sales guy for making you chose the k10d over the d80.

 

i promise.

 

and i'm a d200 shooter...btw the only reason i got rid of my k10d was that someone TRADED a d200 to me for it. that is the only camera i would have traded it for. i do miss it.

 

that's also why if you must get rid of it, let me know.

[elnoralouisa]

I do agree the K100D would be the easiest and cheapest way to go. I think I am just feeling bad because of this seminar thing. It was on using flash which is something I really need help with, and thought it would be great. I did check with the camera store before I signed up (they were sponsoring it). Then I read the materials, and found out it was only for Nikon, Canon, and Fuji. I wrote them to clarify, and they said:

Hi debbie,

the class is focused at pro level cameras and to use OCF in all its capabilities, it is best to use one of those 3 systems.

They were including D80 and D70 as part of the 'pro level' cameras. I wrote back to make sure I understood it correctly, and asked for a refund. They sent it immediately. The camera store said, oh, that's ok, we have some classes you would probably like. Well, I have taken their most advanced class (which now they throw the Pentax people in with another camera group because only four of us showed up), so can you blame me for feeling that if you can't beat them, join them?

[sam_thompson2]

You shouldn't go to any seminar where you are required to learn a particular manufacturers flash system. You will get more mileage by learning manual flash techniques. Understanding how all of it works and then relying on auto modes and you can use books to fill in the gaps.

 

http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/

 

If you ever use radio triggers or slave flashes you have to resort to manual mode anyways.

 

That being said. Nikon has the best flash system on the planet and the D80 supports CLS fully whereas the D40 series does not.

 

A commercial refrigerator will cost a lot more than a home refrigerator and generally each refrigerator will keep your food cold the same. The commercial refrigerator however will use better parts so there is less chance of failure. That is the essential difference between a D200 or a D80. Pictures in 99% will look identical but the D200 will be built a little more sturdy and for some people that is worth the extra costs.

[davemoss]

sam is right, and so were your instincts to get a refund. it sounds like nikon reps were putting this "seminar" on. and yes, if you want to learn the best way to light, you need to learn manually anyway. all this ttl nonsense is exactly that. it may make things easier for a few circumstances, but if you ever want to fire up a monolight with a softbox, all that info is going to be useless.

 

again, the k10d is a PRO level camera...period. i don't know the pentax flash units, so i can't comment on them. i have recently rented (and now bought)a quantum T2 flash unit. that, and i already own a dinosaur 283 vivitar (works fine with digital in manual), and three calumet 750 travelite monolights.

 

those, and a good minolta flash meter.

 

there are many books on learning to light, and there are workshops all over the place. i don't know what major city you live near, but you can find all kinds of places to help you out.

 

for weddings, you could certainly get by with the quantum t2 flash, and turbo battery pack, the light can be modified greatly, and can be used bare bulb, or with a standard reflector too. it is a very dynamic and versatile unit.

 

you could also get an older norman 200 unit used.

 

i like balancing strobe and natural lighting, but i could never do a wedding. i am afraid that too many egos would get in the way of what i--as the photographer--would be trying to accomplish. i've heard--and witnessed--all the horror stories. ;=)

 

good luck with that career path.

[heartyfisher]

Hello debbie, I fully agree with what Dave Moss and Sam says.. Flash photography is one of the things many photographers struggle with even professionals. I am no professional but my brother is and it takes a long time to learn and try out all the wonderful lighting configurations. I went to a workshop recently run by a local group of enthusiasts. We only had to pay for the model and that shared between a whole bunch of us was next to nothing. (poor girl probably got blinded by the flashes) There were all kinds of cameras there. even pentax and it did not make a bit of difference if the guys/girls had a Canon 5D or a nikon D40 Or the K100d. we did learn about the settings, light/flash meters and types of strobes and simple "standard" configurations for the strobes etc etc .

 

All in all a good fun workshop. Try to find an active local camera club. They may have similar workshops in your area.