6x12 back, Linhof vs. Sinar vs. Horseman, any opinions

[bill_glickman]

I am in the market to purchase a 6x12 roll film back. My choices are Sinar zoom II multiformat back, Lihnof 6x12 and Horseman 6x12. Suposedly Calumet is now offering a 6x12 back again, but I have heard from a few posters the quality is very poor. I only want to make one purchase that will last me a lifetime. Here is what I have learned, any corrections or addittional input would be helpful so I can make the best decision.

 

<p>

 

Linhof 6x12 Techno Rollex Film Back - Best price B&H $2,917 + $464 for 220 roll film insert - total price for 220 6x12 back = $3,400!

Sure seems like a lot of money for a roll film back that only has one

format? Can anyone explain to me why this price is so high vs. the other units on the market? I spoke to someone at B&H who claimed this unit was very heavy and the film alignment was not as solid as the Horseman or Sinar. There was a previous post in this forum that also suggested such...for those interested, -- Skot Weidemann October 29, 1999, under Film Holders.

 

<p>

 

Sinar Mulitformat Zoom II - Best pricing, $1850 Robert White, UK.

Shoots 5 different formats from 6x4.5 to 6x12, uses 220 film. Expensive, but considering I would only need to carry one back for all my roll film needs, quite convenient. And considering the costs of at least one other back for a more conventional format, say 6x7, it reduces the cost down to $1200 for the 6x12 part. It fits in the back like a standard film holder and is not much thicker than a conventional film holder, no need to remove gg back.

 

<p>

 

Horseman 6x12. Best price $850 Badger Graphics, graphlock back, must remove gg back, only holds 120 film. But very competitively priced and good track record. I prefer a 220 back but at this price I can buy of them for the price of one Lihnof 220 back and have $1,700 left over for the a new Schneider Super Symar XL? Although extra backs take up more room in my backpack, so that is a consideration.

 

<p>

 

 

Although I can look at the spec sheets till I am blue in the face, I never used any of these backs. I am leaning towards the Sianr... Anybody that has experienced these units that could offer input... it would be greatly appreciated... Thank you in advance.

[wilhelm]

For that kind of money, why don't you just shoot 4x5 and crop in the

enlarger? Or a use pair of sissors if you're shooting 'chromes.

[bill_glickman]

Bill, that is an excellent point, I should have addressed this

in my post. In most situations, thats the smart and economical thing

to do. The reason I wanted a roll film back was because I was

planning on shooting a lot of Panormaic shots with long lenses that

would take up a lot of film. I am shooting them on a Bogen Panoramic

head. For example, using a 240mm lens and 180 deg. coverage of my

scene, it will utilize about 70 cm of film area for the scene plus

you have to double that for intentional overlaping areas, so one shot

of 180 deg. will use 12 - 6x12 shots, vs. taking 12 4x5 shots... roll

film is about $18 (film and processing) for 12 shots and 4x5 is about

$4.50 x 12 = $54.... so I would save about $36 per 180 deg. shot.

(less for 140 deg. shots) This film is then scanned and stitched

together using stitching sofware to make the final Pan shot in a

digital file. I plan on shooting a lot of Pans in the years to come

the film savings alone is significant.

 

<p>

 

For a shot like this, I would most likely add some skies of my

own inside Photoshop to change the original aspect ratio of 6x72 or

12:1, to 12x72 or 6:1. (this assumes the scene was shot pretty much

absent of skies) I was interested in having more optins than the 6x17

type of Pan shot that limits your aspect ratio to about 2.5:1. Large

cameras like 4x20 were way too big and its too hard to find a good

assortment of fl lenses to cover this width. In addition, the 6x12

method utilizes only the sweet spot of a lens, and no light fall off

in the corners in 6x12. (unless you use a very wide lens, less than

90mm, which would defeat the purpose of doing this type of panoramic

work)

 

<p>

 

But also, you have to work fast when firing each shot, so

changing film holders and pulling slides in and out is to time

consuming vs. flipping your thumb on a roll film holder. The light

changes fast, so you must work fast. The tripod head has detents at

about 10 deg. increments so you know exactly where to stop for each

shot, so that part is not too bad. You only have to cock the shutter

and flip the film advance, but seconds add up!

 

<p>

 

Some may find this process cumbersome, but researching alternatives,

I found that the best solution is the Seitz 220 Round shot... which

is about $10k plus lenses much too bulky to backpack with. (Not

much money considering how sophisticated this camera really is)

Whereas this method, I can shoot Pan shots with any aspect ratio I

want with out carrying any additional equipment. My initial test

shots came out good, so I am getting the back for both Pan and

conventional photography also. I wouold not mind occasionaly

croping a 6x12 to 6x9 if I choose a 6x12 format back only. (meaning,

not Sinar)

[bill_glickman]

Ooops typo... correction... I added the(2) below ..

 

<p>

 

I prefer a 220 back, but at this price (Horseman) I can buy (2) of

them for the price of one Lihnof 220 back and have $1,700 left over

for a new Schneider Super Symar XL?

[alpshiker]

Bill, Robert has the TechnoRollex too, at $1580 (Other cameras). As far as I am aware, this back is not

an insert type. It is a graflock. Perhaps would it suit a spring back with lots of clearance? but you would

have to pull it out to move the film anyway. The insert type of the Sinar was really decisive for me.

If you can get hold of a Cambo 6x12, make sure it is a new improved version. The C243 was no good. Poor

construction, 5mm image lost each side when using wide-angles, due to the curvature of the film. The

Horseman back is also sold by Arca-Swiss, or at least it was. So, supposedly, it is of good quality. Good

luck!

[andreas_carl]

Just curious, is there a big advantage of using a 6x12 back as

opposed to the much more economical 6x9 back, if you are going to

stitch them together in Photoshop anyhow???

[larry_huppert1]

That is an interesting question about using the 6x9. I'd assume that

even with 6x12, you would use some degree of overlap between adjacent

images. Would the degree of overlap be close to the 6x9 framing

anyway?

[bill_glickman]

Andreas and Larry, the reason for using 6x12 is simple... it cuts

down the amount of shots you need for a given scene and reduces the

total amount of overlaped spacing, hence you use less film. So you

save significant time and save on film cost as well. A 6x17 film

back would be ideal, or even a 6x17 camera, however, then I would

have to buy a whole new camera system and lenses... because my

existing LF lenses can not be used in both camera systems without

changing lens boards. Plus when backpacking, its a lot easier to

bring a film bck vs a second camera and lenses...

[fw1]

Given your requirements, I agree with the poster who recommended

staying with 4x5. If you want to work fast, get a 6-shot grafmatic

film holder, or try Fuji QuickChange. The 4x5 chrome will give you

more flexibility in the selection of the area to be cropped to

panoramic.

 

<p>

 

That said, I use a Fuji GX617 in conjunction with my 4x5, and the two

systems complement each other well.

[ellis_vener_photography]

From what i recall the long dimension on the Horseman 6x12 back is actually 110mm not 120mm. The Linhof , and possibly the Sinar is a full 120mm

wide.

[ellis_vener_photography]

From what I recall the long dimension on the Horseman 6x12 back is actually 110mm not 120mm. The Linhof back, and possibly the Sinar back, produces a

full 120mm wide image.

[bob_salomon3]

Sinar is about 112mm not 120mm.

[timo_ripatti]

Sinar 6x12 width is 112 mm - I remember it from doubling the width of

Hasselblad 6x6 which is 56 mm square... The advantages of the Sinar

back over the Horseman (I use both, though) is a little wider film

gate, the ease of not having to remove the gg between shots, and 5

different formats built into one back - you can actually change the

format between frames! If the last option is not important to you,

why not consider buying a Sinar Vario back instead?

[dhbebb]

<p>I have a Horseman 6x12 back. This works very well for me. I have not used the Sinar zoom back, but it is mindblowingly expensive, and I am very suspicious of any RFB where the 2 spools are at the same end - you have to pull out a lot of leader to load them, with a 6x12 size, I would be surprised if you can load one of these in the field without fogging - a changing bag I think would be a must. If you want to shoot ALL the formats the Sinar back offers (not just one or two) and do not want to carry more than one back, I could imagine there is a reason to buy the Sinar - if not, the Horseman is vastly cheaper for 6x12, for 6x6 and 6x9 I use Graphic 23 backs, maligned by some, but I like them and they are avaialble for $150 or less.</p>