RED digital camera, 20MP / 30fps

[jtk]

The brand name is RED.

 

Briefly introduced in the current Rangefinder Magazine. Reportedly works

fabulously well. Spoken of as a news camera, among other uses. Far too capable

for news alone.

 

20MP, 30fps. Full frame 35 sensor. http://www.red.com/

 

The body appears RB-67 size, but the whole device is less expensive than a

digital Hasselblad.

 

They're planning a smaller version for consumers.

 

I don't think we'll be seeing DSLR form-factor that's restricted to still

photography much longer.

[brodeub]

Looks to me like a "35mm" HD video camera with a 12MP aps sized cmos sensor. $17.5k for the camera and $6.5k for the zoom lens. Brian.

[ellis_vener_photography]

red one camera body: $17,500

RED ZOOM (f2.8) CF 18 - 50mm: $6,500

red one battery power pack: $1,450.00

RED EVF Viewfinder: $2950.00

media storage options ranging from $500.00 (Compact Flash read/write module) to $900.00 or the RED RAM 64GB module at $6500

 

So not including the RED RAM module you are at $27,500. And only 20Mp.

 

 

Compared to its real competition (which isn't any kind of digital still camera) , the current model of an Arriflex 35

BL with a similar lens, power source, viewfinder, and magazine its cheap.

 

 

And lets not forget that this is a cine camera and needs a heavier tripod and head, which for cine grade stuff can run at least $5000.00 of and the top of the line fully maxed out Apple Pro (which fully tricked out is around $12,000 before you add even one 30" cinema display.) (Red doesn't do Windows in any flavor.)

 

Of course I'd love to have one.

[emre]

For what it does it's an absolute bargain. Film equipment is usually rented, so the price is less of an issue.

[jtk]

... the fact that there's already nay-saying proves this is a taste of the nearterm dominant technology.

 

I've used Arri and know they're beautiful antiques, but they're not nearly as capable as RED claims to be. There's the matter of film, for one thing.

 

As I mentioned, this is construed as a news camera, which means hand-held (like Arris often and readily are). This is the first RED product, the BIG one...perhaps already fully realized. Smaller and cheaper is around the corner.

 

This approach will kill all professional DSLRs. No art director will want a less competent tool in the hands of his photographer...certainly not a current-concept DSLR.

 

Each of these frames beats a 5D. by a factor of two..and at 30 fps...each frame equals a still photo of 20mp. Think about that.

 

Not only is the price a bargain because of rental, it's actually cheaper than the digital equipment in a typical high quality auto mechanic's shop. Hard to imagine a fashion photographer wanting a DSLR when his art director wants this.

 

What successful commercial photographer can't spend $50K on camera equipment, for that matter?

 

We've not begun to see the imagery that this, and the new huge chips from Kodak, portend.

[emre]

Wait a minute...nobody is going to be doing still photography with this. It's huge!

[beauh44]

<I>This approach will kill all professional DSLRs</i><P>

 

I'm with Emre. IMHO the comparisons with a 5D are apples and oranges. Yeah, Peter Jackson might be using one but who's gonna lug this beast around? It looks like a Klingon Battle Cruiser. If you have any equipment failure you better be successful enough to buy two or you'll be sending home Warf and the entire crew you'll need to go with it.<P>

[mark_hanegraaff]

I'm not sure that the technology is exactly around the conrer.

As much as I would love to have one of these suckers (who wouldn't), it will be well over a decade before full frame CMOS manufacturing is cheap enough and the hardware is small enough for this to be a viable replacement for the average DSLR.

Also, camera manufacterers are in no rush to make their current productline obsolete (think of lost revenue and research cost) by developing a cheap consumer version of this camera in the near future.

I think for now Peter Jackson is the only one who is going to have fun with this. What a jerk he is :)

[mike dixon]

<i>20MP, 30fps. Full frame 35 sensor. </i><P>

Where did you get those specs? According to their website, it's got a 12-megapixel, 24.4mm x 13.7mm sensor. Why would a $15,000, 9-lb (without lens/battery/viewfinder), small-sensor movie camera replace a digital SLR?

[jtk]

5D is an inexpensive prosumer camera with 1/2 the resolution of RED, despite virtually identical pixel count. RED isn't your father's Oldsmobile (5-D).

 

Arri 35 is usually formatted for Panavision: Panavision would be lucky to equal APS film format, printed beyond letter size.

 

5D equals 35mm film for some photogs: RED is twice the resolution.

 

RED will probably be sold or will license to serious capital to take the concepts further...Canon? ...Kodak? In any case, if it's as good as the one commentary in Rangefinder, it's not going to vanish in favor of today's mediocre DSLR form factor.

 

Size/weight are irrelevant for many studios...consider 40 years of long-roll 46 and 70mm cameras in portrait/senior studios, for example.

 

Tech gets smaller with time and RED says it has consumer cameras in the works.

 

IF Nikon/Canon/Hass-Mamiya-Fuji/Leica plan to sell top end professional cameras in the future, they will have to far-outperform medium format because expensive studio work will be expected to work on HD TV, not just in print ads.

 

IMO RED is just a hint of things to come.

[jtk]

Mike D and Brian B, you both referred to a low resolution version.

 

Read further into the RED website for the higher resolution version (big pixels, too!):

 

DIGITAL SUPER 35MM

 

Record 2540 progressive at up to 60 fps RAW. With 4520 X 2540 pixels, Mysterium? puts pure digital Ultra-High Def in the palm of your hand.

...

Field and selective focus as found in film cameras. Mysterium? boasts a greater than 66db Signal to Noise Ratio thanks to its large 29 sq. micron pixels. And 12,065,000 pixels deliver resolution that can only be called Ultra High Definition.

[mike dixon]

<i>Read further into the RED website for the higher resolution version (big pixels, too!): </i><P>

Where, <b>specifically</b>, does it talk about a 20-megapixel, 24mm x 36mm sensor? Your quote describes the 24.4mm x 13.7mm ("Super 35"), 4520 x 2540 (12 megapixel) sensor. (The Canon 5D's pixels are 67 sq. microns.)

[mark_hanegraaff]

I don't think anyone disagrees that eventually digial stills and HD camcorders will merge into the same product, but the market is not exactly crying for a cheap movie studio camcorder to become available to the average joe, which means that it will take time before prices are driven down. Think of HD tvs. They were around for almost decade before sales really started picking up. People weren't crying for higher resolution on their tv sets. Look at HD-DVD and BlueRay now. I think a similar case can be made for RED becoming genrally adopted in the near future.

[jtk]

Mark, I generally agree with you. But "near future" is always getting nearer, and "average joe" is as irrelevant to 5D as to RED.

 

Some who buy the top Canon or Leica M8 could just as readily spend 10X, just as some who run around in Prius could afford Bentleys. Price is not a critical issue at the top end. Further, commercial photographers, people who photograph top models, won't find it excessive to invest a months income in RED, especially given the tax reality and the fact that they'll be able to rent RED to their associates (or rent it from them).

 

Mike, we should split the difference. You're right about pixel size, I'm right about 20mp. Read and you'll confirm.

 

In the end it makes no difference because RED's sensor size is as big as Panavision, and will out-resolve anything you see in advertising or on the typical movie screen, not to mention HD TV.

 

It'll be technologically easy to merge a few of those 30fps frames, or even 120fps frames, into one still image to create 3D or just spectacular color depth...soon coming down the cable to your HD TV, with or without RED.

 

I can't imagine a top advertising art director with a top account wanting files limited to still images in 2-D, when for very little more $$ he can have motion (should he decide he needs it), better visual quality, and 3-D. :-)

[jtk]

...also, Leica is said to have something much more impressive than M8 in the works...I don't assert that RED is the cat's pajamas, but it's obvious that we're about to see a whole new level of technology, whether in 2008 or 2010.

 

I doubt any of today's top DSLRs or their nostalgic SLR-like form factor will be attractive to professional photographers within a very few years.

 

Anybody remember Kodak's recent 50MP announcement?

 

BTW, did anybody notice that RED uses Canon FD mount ?

 

:-)

[emre]

I think we are not going to see big advances after around 24MP, since it will outresolve 35mm lenses and require a migration to MF sensors. I would be happy with "only" 24MP though :)

 

We are only a year or two away from that.

[emre]

Newsflash: RED's parent company, Oakley, is being bought by Rayban for $2.1B in cash!

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19346798/

 

http://www.hdforindies.com/2007/06/oakley-getting-bought-by-luxottica.html