Need very fast very sharp lens for 30D, 35 1.4L or 24 1.4L or?

[jim_d5]

I need a lens for a new project that must meet two requirements: it must be

extremely sharp, it must be extremely fast. It must be sharp because I will be

having to make prints at 16x20 and larger with some cropping most likely. It

must be fast because the shots are going to be at parties, clubs, bars, and the

like.

 

So, I hear many good things about the 35 f/1.4L. However, the 24 f/1.4L is also

supposedly good though not as razor like in the sharpness. The lens will need

to capture people and the environment, there will be no need to go wider than

normal perspective or so. Am I missing some other option? Many just say the 35

1.4L is such a lens that there really is no other option.

 

Finally, one requirement is that I am client limited to 100 or 200 ISO. So this

rules out pumping up the ISO and using one of my slower lenses, i.e. my L zooms.

Also, I cannot get a good 16x20+ from a 400+ ISO image, IMO. This is a rather

critical application as the prints will "need to project professionalism" in a

heavily trafficked hallway.

 

I have the skills necessary to use such a narrow DOF. I do not have an easy

time with the $1100. But I have wanted this lens since its release about a

decade ago. My current fastest lenses are the 50 f/1.8II and the 20 f/2.8 (not

really fast). I hear good prints from the 35 1.4L look 3D! Sounds pretty

enticing.

 

Is this realistic for the 30D, what with the 8MP and all? On the 30D is it

overkill? I also have an XTi but it sees limited use on such projects, but I

will use it if I have to. To be honest I can tell little difference between a

20x30 from my XTi compared to from my 30D.

 

BTW, buying a 5D or going to medium format, etc, is not an option. Also,

tripods are impracticable for clubs and bars and so are monopods for the most

part in case you didn't know. Thanks, J.D.

[marknagel]

See for yourself. 35/1.4 at 1.4

 

http://www.nagelhome.com/phototest/35mm%20boken.jpg

 

http://www.nagelhome.com/phototest/35mm%20boken1.jpg

 

35/1.4 vs. 50/1.4:

 

http://www.nagelhome.com/phototest/35mm%20test.jpg

 

m

[jbq]

Is your concern about hand-holding, or about shutter speed (or background blur)?

 

If you're worried about hand-holding, you should be looking at a good IS zoom, e.g. 24-105 or 17-55, which photozone reports as being significantly sharper at f/4 than the 35 at f/1.4 (and much more so than the 24/1.4).

 

If you want as fast a shutter speed as possible, there's no substitute for an ultra-fast L prime, but you've got to be aware that even the beast aren't perfectly sharp edge-to-edge.

 

If you want a good background blur, I'm not quite sure what to say. I was unimpressed by the sample pictures from the 35/1.4 at photozone.

 

Don't get too focused on the sensitivity. In a given amount of light, it's better to use a high sensitivity and properly expose to the right than to underexpose at a low sensitivity.

 

How about renting some equipment? You've correctly identified the 5D as being a more suitable camera.

[fxdonny]

This questions have been asked before. I agree that 35 is sharper than 24, but for me, it boils down to favorite focal length. With 30D, I would go for 24 and 50, which you already have. No matter how sharp is 35, it's just not wide enough on 30D, IMHO.

[keith_lubow]

I would rent a Mk. II Ds or 5D and use your 50mm f/1.8. It is plenty sharp and those cameras will provide prints that are just fine even at ISO 800 or above. Even your 30 will do so, but the 1.6 crop is a PITA, and the other two models I mentioned will improve the noise over a 30D, although with a 30D the noise will be perfectly acceptable. If you want wider coverage, rent a 35 as well. Forget about your "client-limited" ISO. They can shoot it themselves if they want to tell you how to shoot it. They are hiring you, and you shoot it how you want to with what you want. Also, if you make the prints full frame 12x18s instead of 16x20s, it will help a lot. You have a nice 2:3 ratio frame; why shoot to crop?

 

Keith

[fred_c1]

>It must be fast because the shots are going to be at parties, clubs, bars, and the like.

 

>Finally, one requirement is that I am client limited to 100 or 200 ISO.

 

>Also, tripods are impracticable for clubs and bars and so are monopods for the most part in case you didn't know.

 

>Is this realistic for the 30D

 

Under such limitations, simultaneous proper exposure AND sharpness are totally unrealistic. Only a lens/scope with built-in light intensifier would be fast enough, but then the focal length would also be too long.

http://www.nightvision.ru/eng/products/nightvision/D-360madd/

[keith_lubow]

Oh, I read that other response. An IS zoomwould be a terrible option over a fast prime in that sort of environment. I shoot in horrid light all the time and I would never use a zoom, or anything slower than f/2. Not only do you need to be able to handhold, but you need to be able to freeze action, which IS will not help you with at all. Don't be afraid to bump the ISO. It'll look fine if you know what you're doing.

 

Keith

[david_oskarsson1]

You might want to consider the Sigma 30/1.4, again according to photozone it's sharper wide open in the center than the 35L. Of course since it's designed for crop cameras it's border sharpness is worse. I'm very happy with my copy, including its AF speed, but I hear many have had to AF calibrate theirs.

[keith_lubow]

I just uploaded two examples for you to scope out if you want. Look at the top two photos in the sports section of my portfolio. They are 12x18 at 72 ppi, and are downsized for the Internet. Both were taken without flash at high ISOs with a 20D. Both were taken with a crappy Sigma 18-125 f/3.5-5.6 zoom that I was using at the time. Both were at '125. Both were in pretty bad lighting. Not as bad as what you will be in, probably, but then again, you've got an extra stop over a 3.5 lens, and another extra stop by lowering the shutter speed a bit. Also, if you rent a 5D or IDs Mk. II, it'll get even cleaner. Also, your lens will be much more sharp and beautiful than this nasty zoom I was using. The first was taken at 1600 and cropped. The second was taken at 800 and is not cropped. Both have minor levels tweaks and 150/1/0 unsharp masking only, except the first also had some color balance adjustment. No noise reduction, in camera or otherwise. My point is that you will be fine with high ISOs.

[keith_lubow]

my mistake about the unsharp mask. it was 50/1/0, not 150/1/0.

[david_oskarsson1]

I'm sure the images will be fine but if the client says ISO 200 tops, ISO 200 tops it is.

[rainer_t]

So far, you haven't mentioned where the clients fear of ISO 400 or 800 comes from. You could ask the client to do a demo for him with 400 and 800 iso. He might find the results still acceptable. If he doesn't you still haven't lost anything, but may be you can win one or two fstops ... which you urgently need.

 

I don't do this type of photography often, but when I do, I often find myself at 800 or 1600 iso, f/2 to f/1.4 and 1/60 to 1/30 sec with the above mentioned Sigma 30/1.4 ... resulting in pictures like the appended one. I simply don't see, how you would be doing this at iso 100 or 200.

[keith_lubow]

Any client who knows enough about photography to know not only what ISO is, but that lower = cleaner, would also know that shooting at such a low ISO would provide very underexposed pictures in the lighting conditions. I think perhaps what the poster meant was that the client simply wants "good looking prints", and the poster thinks that using an ISO below 400 is the only way to do this. If the client knew what the hell they were talking about, they wouldn't be the client, and you woudln't be the photogrpaher.

 

Keith

[david_oskarsson1]

Good point Rainer, even if a client is always right this one probably only has P&S or N**** experience ;) Flash is out of the question otherwise?

[fred_c1]

Whether the ISO 100-200 is actually demanded by the client or assumed by the photographer, obviously neither knows better than the other. ;-)

[bueh]

I shoot often at clubs and mainly use the mundane EF 50mm f/1.8 on my 20D with the 380EX bounced and a reflector card. Most of the time I shoot aperture-priority with ISO 400, f/2.2, FEC +2/3, background exposure compensation -2/3, contrast-1, saturation+0, sharpness+1. The 20D comes handy with its 5 fps as I often shoot as fast as I can to capture a good shot in the moving lights.

 

Without a flash I try ISO 800 or 1600, wide open and hope for the best.

 

If this is really critical and you get good money for this project, I'd rent a 5D and the 24mm f/1.4 and 50 f/1.2.

[iskandar_azaman___kuala_lu]

First question. Have you ever actually printed an ISO 400 photo from the 30D?

 

'Cos i don't think there is that big a difference between that and ISO 200. If there is then it is not the camera but your shooting technique. Which means that you are not getting good exposures. I've printed ISO400 at 20x30 with no problems and displayed it at a wedding reception seen by close to 1000 people.

 

Just shoot at ISO400 and don't tell the client. Even ISO 800 is good on a 30D if you nail the exposure. Clients see the prints. Unless you've signed a contract that says you will only shoot at ISO 200 and no more, then you should use whatever technique gets the best picture. ISO 200 may be noise free but when you need to bump up the exposure 'cos you underexposed the shot, it might even be worse than a good ISO 800 exposure.

[derek_stanton2]

Have you ruled out flash? Although i dislike it, under those conditions, flash exposure may

be the only way to consistently ensure "sharp" results. Most 'Party/Celeb Photographers' -

like Patrick McMullan and Roxanne Lowitt work that way. Try an off-camera flash, and/or

bounce.

 

If, though, you're looking for candid, low-light, 'Leica-style' images, you're certain to be

battling against too slow shutter speeds, and blur. If you are only required to provide

prints (not digital files with EXIF data embedded), i would agree with some of the

suggestions above: rent a 5D, and shoot at higher ISOs. Then, try selective noise removal

processing. The difference between 200 and 400 or 800 will depend on the camera, AND

the conditions. Get your exposure right and shoot RAW.

 

Why can't you use a monopod? It might slow you down a little, but positive results are the

first priority. And, the monopod might even force you into some very constructive

restrictions....

[vinke]

What focal length floats your boat?

[mendel_leisk]

5D, ISO400 and 50mm f1.4?

[michael j hoffman]

Flash?

 

Michael J Hoffman

[pbizarro]

Limited to ISO 100-200, you will end up with very slow shutter speeds, even at f/1.4. Most likely, you will end up with subject blur, since you will be shooting at 1/5 or 1/10 second. Can you handhold at these speeds?

 

You could end up with some interesting atmospheric shots, but I would say that sharpness should not be at the top of your concerns... even the 35 L shot at f/1.4 is not "super sharp" (no lens is) as per your requirement. I would go with primes instead of zooms, because they are faster, and more resistant to flare.

[carnagex_carnagex]

Go wider on the 30D, and use a flash. For tips on shooting clubs, go here:

http://www.digitalfrog.nl/?p=30

[lester_wareham]

You really should be able to use 800 ISO without too much trouble, specially if you add some masked NR, that is OK up to A3+ so I am sure with RAW and the correct PP you can easily work to 400 ISO for your target print size.

[jim_d5]

Thanks everyone, I agree that higher ISO is okay but I make a point not to deny someone their specific requests. Anyway, this has been solved as I now have a way to borrow a 24 1.4L for the time I need it, lucky for sure. Thanks again.