Camera Shops have gone insane!

[gaetano catelli]

countless brick-and-mortar stores, of every sort, already have been driven out of business by online merchants, because of the latter's inherently lower cost structure and, thus, ability to undercut brick-and-mortar stores on price.

[don_e]

If a seller quotes a price, good business sense saith that is the price. If the store has a in-store/internet price structure, the store ought to have asked before quoting a price to the prospect. A simple "Will you be ordering this on our internet store?" is a simple enough question to ask before quoting a price. The store ought to have that question on a postit taped to the phone for the staff to reference.

[chris_waller]

Abe,

 

I sympathise, but it's the way the world is going. I now buy most of my film and chemicals by mail-order. My local photographic retailer, the last 'real' photographic shop in the area, is shutting down the retail premises and going wholesale-only. The good news is that I can collect from the warehouse, which in many respects is better since the cost of car-parking in the city-centre is daylight robbery. (That's one of the reasons so many shops are closing down.) Retailers are always up against increasing rents on premises, squeezing their margins. It's sad but the big chain-stores are driving the independents out of the High Street.

[phyrpowr]

Is anyone figuring in shipping & handling prices on Inet sales? Those can get interesting

[njdrew]

For someone who is not in the business, it's easy to say that there's no need for two-tier pricing, or that "the cost of in-store staff is a fixed expense" with no bearing on the cost to do business. Those are the words of someone who doesn't have to invest the money it takes to operate a business. There's an obvious cost advantage to warehouse operations that don't require interaction directly with the end user. For the web-based businesses, it usually translates into a reduced cost. With the pressures being put on bricks-and-mortar operations by people who sell goods from their barns, garages and basements, with little or no overhead, the need to recover all costs can make the difference between being in business, and out of business.

 

The flip side of the argument is for the business to increase web prices so that all customers, whether walk-in or internet, share in the added expense of maintaining a showroom, but to do so would certainly result in the obvious inability to compete.

[johnw436]

I'm totally with Abe on this one. Nowhere did Abe say he as asking for the Internet price. He was not quoted an Internet price- he called the guy on the phone and got quoted, if I read his original post correctly.

 

Yes, the salesman needs to make money. That's the cost of doing business and it's the problem of the business owner, not me. Abe says the business quoted him a price and then jacked it up once he got there. That's happened to me too many times. Next time you have time to kill, go to a carlot and window shop. Work out a price. Let him think you really, really want the car and see where the price goes. Then go sit down with the finance man and see how close to raping you he thinks he can get. Salesmen gotta eat, and Finance guys gotta make money, too...right?

 

Sadly, this camera shop appears to have felt Abe needed the body really bad and tried to stick it to him. Good on you, Abe.

 

I don't expect my local camera shop to compete with online sellers. Heck, I don't expect them to match Circuit City or Best Buy brick and morter stores. What I do expect is something in return for the extra money I am willing to pay them; namely service and support. Helpful advice. I expect some follow-up after the sale when I go back for accessories and ask them questions.

 

Yes. The salesman needs to make money. That means he actually needs to SELL SOMETHING. Let him turn away 10 more Abes this week who all come in with cash in hand. When he makes 110% of NOTHING he can complain that the internet is driving him out of business. GOOD RIDDENCE.

 

Camera stores had a niche market for a long time and now they have to compete on price like every other retail outlet in the world. Don't come crying to me that your market dried up. Blame digital for turning cameras into toasters. I live in a world where sales margins are measured after the decimal point. I actually have to provide some service to differentiate my product from the next guy. Welcome to my world.

[kelly_flanigan1]

Its also GOOD RIDDENCE to customers who dont really add to the bottom time of keeping a business afloat. Internet sales have often less hassles; less teats; less bother. In paper sales here there are often many special prices; 2 is rather a college profs simpleton model. One may have no margin with a school sale; a goodwill issue. Then another might be a razor thin bid for a big schools yearly buy. Then there maybe more markup for an advertising outfit that pays promptly. Then the markup maybe alot higher for low turnover items; the ebay of internet lower sale price is away to help rotate stock; over buys; stuff that can go bad with time. In one type of inkjet paper I sell; I get it trucked in boxed with 4 rolls to a box. On the internet one can buy 1 roll and a higher price; or a pack of four thats easy to ship as one wad. Buying 5 means you pay for the higher extra roll plus 2 ups charges. Reality hurts the simpleton mind. A Warren Buffet type buyer for an internet sale will buy in 1, 4, 8, 12 rolls so the costs are low. A jackass local buyer will often buy in weird amount; 3 rolls of this type; 5 of another; 7 of another, etc. This means more partial boxes are created; plus they bitch if the extra roll dosnt have a box; or is in a bigger box. Physical customers often require alot of handholding; returns are 100 times more. They will over buy and want you to take back rolls that are dented; dirty, have core caps removed. Local stores a used to dumped in; as a toilet. Some of the best things I have done is say good riddence to no players locally; and focus on internet folks. You check your email; get paypal money; slap the label on the 4 pack; the ups man picks it up at 4pm. One YOYO local customer ripped open a giant box of 16x20" inkjet paper; then said its not the right stuff. This jackassery is zilch in mailorder; folks behave radically better. Local stores dont have to be a teat for locals to suck dry; the internet is often a much better arena. The local brick an mortar shop can sell lower to better players; the internet and mailorder crowd. They dont come in at 8am and want to buy a 99 cent item with a 100 dollar bill. They dont return stuff as much. They dont waste your time asking how to load batteries in a camera they dint buy from you. Local buyers whine more; often they are clueless on the farting around it takes with goofy quanities. They want to try several different serial numbers of the same item; they wreck the packaging. They want to bring in a laptop so you can load the software for them. Locals who are players get great prices; non players and time wasters get worse pricing; the jackassery has to be paid for. The local store is often used a a free rental site; they you buy it out of state to not pay taxes. Defining who you are is a good thing; cut off the customers who dont add to the bottom line.

[laurenm]

John, you may want to re-read Abe's post. He said, "I look up the largest local camera store to buy a new body (time to upgrade anyway) and see the price. I call the store to check if they have it in stock."

 

He said he SAW the price and called to see if it was in stock. Not that they quoted him the price over the phone.

 

The "something in return for the extra money" is the fact that the store pays rent and utilities on a physical and stocked shop, manned with sales people who unlock the door in the morning, disarm the security system, turn on the lights, flip the door sign to "open", get the camera off the shelf, ring it up in the register/computer, place it in a bag, print out a receipt and smile and hand it to Abe wishing him luck on his job that he needed an emergency backup camera for on THAT SAME DAY. Lucky for them, Abe was an easy customer without any questions, but it doesn't mean they should lower the price because he didn't take much of their time. They had to be there for him to be able to get the camera same day.

 

Some retailers these days sell items that are only available online. I would think we should be slightly thankful that there are still some you can go to in person for the products you need.

 

That said, I still think that if the store was at fault in not indicating that their online prices were for online only sales, (likely something they had overlooked as it makes perfect sense for them to sell for less online)then Abe should tell them in writing of his unhappiness with their deceptive marketing and give them a chance to make it right. Then, if they don't and he knows elsewhere to walk in and buy a camera for only $40 more than he could online, then fine, no more business from Abe Slamowitz

 

Retailers are selling online because they can do it cheaper and make more sales overall (= more money). It is becoming no longer profitable for them to have a physical store. If we the consumers want to be able to walk in to stores, we may have to appreciate the ones that are still around before they are gone.

 

Is a Ceasar salad at the Ritz worth more than the same at the 99 restaurant? No. but the service and ambiance are what you are paying for at the Ritz.

[johnw436]

Lauren,

 

No doubt about it. A physical store offers much more than price in my opinion and should absolutely charge more. How much more depends on the value the customer places on you as a company. It's the store's challenge to define what that value is and sell it as value-added.

 

Anyone who has ever been involved in sales knows from experience that price cannot be your only selling point. (Unless you are an online broker, in which case you can still charge more if you always have items in stock, are easy to deal with, ship fast, and people like your company. That is worth more money- which is exactly what adds value to a physical store.)

 

However, making a premium (in comparison to online) is not a right that a store has. That premium is for added services that an online seller cannot offer. There must be value in the transaction that can be labeled as an intangible. Whether or not the added money is to cover overhead is a moot point to the buyer. That is the store's problem to manage if they want to be in business. I'll pay them the premium for intangibles that increase the value of the sale to me. The store's internal cost structure is not valuable to me.

 

I think we wholeheartedly agree that real stores are valuable to us as photographers and we all should support them. One caveat: The store must justify their own existence. I won't shop at a physical store that treats me no better than the online seller does. That's just stupid money management on my end. It's not my responsibility to see that the clerk, the stock boy, or the electric company get paid any more than I would expect the store to give me a price break for the increase in gas cost to reach the store.

 

Yes. I support local businesses that support me as a customer. No. I feel no obligation to keep slackers in business simply because they cannot compete on price with no service.

 

Back to Abe so that we don't hijack the thread. You are correct. He did look them up online. He also showed up cash in hand, asked no questions. No help needed. I'll give you this much for the camera... They didn't want the sale. STUPID STUPID STUPID on the seller. The sale cost them nothing, but would have provided increased inventory turns and there was still profit to be made. Well, they lost more than the forty dollar difference, didn't they? Yep. They lost it all. Business must be good is all I can say.

[anthony yates]

The free market at its finest

[austinphoto]

The store has been losing business for a while and is complaining about business. Well, I borrowed a camera and was ok for the weekend. This week I went to B&H, bought the camera for $50 cheaper, but at the exact price quoted on their website. I am happy, they are happy, they sale went off very smoothly, went in, paid, picked up and I have no upgraded. The Long Island Store has few walk ins these days and now I know why. They run an internet business through their store. The merchandise going on internet sales come off the store shelves. It just doesn't make sense. If you're going to have a store with a side business on the internet, your job is to make everyone happy. I've spent thousands of $$ through out the years there. No More! B&H will get my business from now on. On the Internet, on the phone, or in person! They're happy to see me. I feel better now. I've got my new DSLR and the store on LI has to get rid of one more that he could have gotten rid of. I understand that he's not working out of a warehouse. But the internet sales he processes all come out of the same store. A customer is a CUSTOMER. If you're selling out of the same spot,treat them with respect and they'll come back. Look at all the internet only stores ripping off people (check resellerratings.com) and see that the really low price internet dealers are crooks. That's why I want to go in and pick up, especially in emergancy. I spent more time on this board, than I did at B&H. They have free parking across the street. That's my store from now on!

[johnw436]

Good for you, Abe. Don't let us get started on Adorama. I could rant for years.