simon_t__ireland_ Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Hi Everyone, Can someone recommend a good source of information on how you can photograph birds and general action photography without resorting to AF lenses? Before the era of AF technology, how did those professional nature photography take their photos? What is the secret apart from having a good tripod and good monopod? My equipment consist of Olympus E-300 dSLR, Tokina 400mm f5.6 and Tokina 300mm f2.8, plus 1.4x and 2x teleconverters. Thanks,Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronald_moravec1 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Prefocus where the flying bird will be. Leica and Novoflex made long telephotos that focused using a sliding tube or pistol squeese grip respectively both of which are much faster than rotating a collar. Leica also made a pistol grip and a focusing mechanism that could be preset to three distances. You did not focus, but mearly moved a lever to one of three places. Focus sceens were made for focusing rather than bright viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doug herr Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 The wildlife photos on my website <A HREF="http://www.wildlightphoto.com" target="_blank">www.wildlightphoto.com</A> were all made with manual-focus equipment.<P>Ronald's response is a big part of the secret. I can't emphasize the viewfinder quality too much, but this is what has been sacrificed in order to provide AF. While I also favor the sliding-focus lenses Ronald mentions, rotating-ring lenses can also be used successfully on many types of wildlife subjects. The biggest factor by far is viewfinder quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark_chappell Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 There's no dispute that you need a good viewfinder to accurately and quickly focus by eye, but I disagree that AF per se is what has caused a decline in viewfinder quality. Instead, it's the proliferation of smaller-than-35mm APS and DX-sized DSLR sensors. The viewfinders on some AF cameras, even some DSLRs -- even some 'cropped sensor' DSLRs -- are fine. The Nikon 2dx viewfinder is quite nice. So is the one on the Canon 1D series (I find that much easier to use for manual focus than my old Nikon F2 and F3 cameras, for example). Replacing standard focusing screens with one optimized for telephotos can help, if your focus screen is replaceable. To get back to the OP's question: Before there was AF, there were not as many excellent photos of flying birds and other fast-moving subjects as are being produced routinely today. AF is a tremendous help for those sorts of subjects. It's as simple as that -- but that being said, there are plenty of superb images of flying birds, etc. shot with MF equipment. Often it's best to use a different approach. With a modern AF system, one can lock onto a moving target, track it while you let the AF do its job, and shoot at the optimal moment (or with a fast frame rate, use the machine-gun approach). With MF, it may be better to prefocus, track the target as it flies/runs into the focus plane, and attempt to shoot at the precise moment of best focus. To use MF to attempt to follow-focus on a moving subject, pistol-grip type MF systems help, but the eye-brain-hand coordination has to be excellent and A LOT of practice wil improve your skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCL Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Many of the autofocus lenses have a short throw at longer distances, making it harder to accurately manually focus them...you get into the plane of focus fast, but there basically isn't room for fine adjustment. As the above respondees have noted, eye-hand coordination, preplanning and luck all play a role. When I was growing up we were taught two basic premises on shooting fast moving objects...1) pan if it is moving parallel to you (which seemed to require a lot of good judgment to get a really great shot, or 2) shoot somewhere between a 45-90 degree angle as the object approaches you and rely on your shutter speed to stop the motion. AF makes one aspect of the job easier but the end result is more often a case of strong pre-planning, stealth and (sometimes camouflage) patience...like more than an hour of choosing the right moments, lighting, positioning...at least in my case. BTW, I prefer to use MF for my bird shots, having had less than stellar results from AF lenses...often the sound of the motor sets off the birds I'm stalking. Needless to say I sold off the AE gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucecyr Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Your using better lenses than I have! Mostly I use 500, 600 and 1000 mirrors with f8, f8 and f11 fixed apertures respectively, and of course manual focuing. For relaxation, I use my 300 f4 with a 1.4X TC that autofocuses :-) The most effective steps for me were: 1. Replacing the viewfinder screen of my Canon 350D with a microprism/split prism, brightened Katzeye screen. 2. Learning to use a support system -- tripod if you can, but even a monopod is a vast improvement over handheld shots. 3. Practice Practice Practice focusing with a large, patterned 2-D target, like the broad-side of a barn or a large brick wall. Keep changing your distance and refocus for every shot until you get it down -- you should aim for at least 90% dead accuracy on your first attempt. Take as much time as you need until you reach the 90% level, then try to add speed without loss of accuracy. 4. Shoot a lot and refocus for every shot. If possible, aim to get a clear view of the bird's eye. Otherwise, some distinguishing feature, like the feather pattern, the beak, etc. 5. In flight shots are seemingly more of a crap shot, but I'm amazed that I occasionally get sharp focus without having time to do more than aim and shoot -- must be the practice :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 It is not as hard as you think it is. For non flight shots you just focus on the subject, and trigger the shutter when you have obtained good focus. This is what many do even with long AF lenses. For flight shots with mf lenses, you pre focus the lens at a point the bird will reach. Then, you track a bird in flight and trigger the shutter when the bird is in focus. For most shooters, to do this with a 300mm lens, you can do it all hand held. With a 500mm lens, you need a good tripod like a Gitzo 1325 properly leveled and a gimbal head like a Wimberley. Once you gain experience, you will learn to change focus while the bird is in flight. One hand for focus change and the other for moving the lens/camera and triggering the shutter. For flight shots with a 500mm, forget the monopod. The less magnification the easier it is to obtain focus. Joe Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseph_smith3 Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 If your camera allows it, shoot in continuous mode, start a moment before you think the bird is there and continue until it has left. Maybe one or two will be really sharp. Joe Smith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brody_philip Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Read Arthur Morris's, Bird Photography,Pure and Simple". But briefly, it is generally desirable to manual focus since it is very important to focus on the eye and autofocus typically will not help you do this. Use fast lenses, not so much to reduce exposure time but to allow better focus as a result of a brighter image in the view finder. Sometimes it helps to use a magnifying focus aid -if the bird is stationary. Take into account the very shallow depth of field encountered using long lenses close up. With fliting birds like warblers, good luck. In that case I think the very good pictures are obtained using blinds and an attractive feature such as a water drip.<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert DeCandido PhD Posted June 3, 2007 Share Posted June 3, 2007 Hi, This photo of a Jerdon's Baza in flight (in Thailand - March 2007) was made using manual focus - the AF on my 300mm lens had become too sluggish, and I had to do everything manually. As the other folks have suggested: focus on the eye; push the ASA to 640-800 (for a Nikon sensor); and stopp down to F8 if possible. Finally, shoot at 1/1000 of a second or faster for birds in flight...Did I mention luck? Yes perhaps that is a photographer's greatest ally...just luck. Anyway. Jerdon's Baza was thought to migrate in SE Asia - this photo (and the accompanying migration research) confirmed that...<div></div> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon_t__ireland_ Posted June 3, 2007 Author Share Posted June 3, 2007 I love this forum - particularly the Nature forum. Thank you very much for all your comments. I will post some of my attempts recently when I get a chance. Best regards,Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gatorgums Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 BIRDS IN FLIGHT, BIRDS LANDING, TAKING OFF, EATING, WHATEVER. AS ROBERT SAID ABOVE, SOMETIMES IT IS A MATTER OF EVERYTHING BEING RIGHT, AND THEN A GOOD BIT OF LUCK. TRY TO STOP DOWN TO F11 OR F16. ESTIMATE THE DISTANCE THE BIRD IS IN FEET, YOU MAY HAVE TO ANTICIPATE THAT THE BIRD WILL BE AT INFINITY OR AT ABOUT 20 FEET, IF IT IS FLYING PAST YOU AT A RIGHT ANGLE. YOU DO NOT NEED TO FOCUS ON THE BIRD! HERE IS WHAT I WOULD DO IF I WANTED TO PHOTOGRAPH A BIRD IN FLIGHT- (THERE ARE MANY OTHER SCENARIOS, I KNOW, THIS IS JUST ONE EXAMPLE)at a distance estimated to be 20 feet away by the time it flew past me. set aperture to f16. look on the lens barrel and notice that there are two marks on the dof indication scale to the left and right of center of lens. find the INFINITY MARK ON YOUR LENS BARREL AND LINE IT UP TILL IT IS OVER THE F16 MARK. NOW LOOK TO THE LEFT OF CENTER AND FIND THE F16 MARK . NOTICE THAT THE F16 IS UNDER ABOUT THE 5 FOOT MARK. ON THE LENS I AM USING FOR THIS EXAMPLE, THE F16 MARK IS ALIGNED AT ROUGHLY THE 5.25 FOOT MARK TO THE LEFT SIDE OF THE MIDDLE OF THE FOCUS BARREL. NOW YOU KNOW THAT EVERYTHING FROM ABOUT 5 AND ONE HALF FEET TO INFINITY WILL BE IN FOCUS, INCLUDING THE BIRD FLYING BY AT, IN THIS HYPOTHETICAL EXAMPLE, THE DISTANCE OF 20 FEET. IF THE BIRD IS SMALL AND MOVING FAST AS THEY ARE WANT TO OFTEN DO, THEN YOU CAN CONCENTRATE ON PANNING YOUR CAMERA WITH THE BIRDS SPEED OF FLIGHT AND THEN SNAPPING THE PICTURE AS IT GOES BY. ALL OF THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL, BUT THE PRINCIPLE IS THE SAME. THIS DOES NOT ADDRESS THE SITUATION WHERE IT IS A OVERCAST DAY AND SO YOU MUST USE A WIDER ( LARGER) SAY F4 APERTURE TO ALLOW FOR FASTER SHUTTER SPEED. THERE ARE ALL KINDS OF VARIABLES NOT MENTIONED, BUT IN GENERAL, BY USING THE HYPER-FOCAL DISTANCE , BY PRE-FOCUSING AND PANNING (FOR BIRDS IN FLIGHT) YOU CAN PHOTOGRAPH MOVING BIRDS WITHOUT AUTO FOCUS. Pigeons seem to enjoy speeding up as they approach the underside of a bridge and employ an erratic flight style. here is a pic of one as it TAKES OFF UNDER THE BRIDGE. THOSE THINGS ARE FAST , UNPREDICTABLE AND NUTS. NOT AN EASY THING TO PHOTOGRAPH WITH A MANUAL FOCUS CAMERA! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keith_leonin Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 mike stryke - <b><u><l>STOP YELLING!</b></u></i> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dangoldman Posted June 4, 2007 Share Posted June 4, 2007 What i have learned, shooting birds with manual focus equipment, a Cannon A1 and 400 4.5 lens, is that its a mother to shoot manual focus! You certainly cant pick the camera up when you see a bird fly by and snap the picture in a second and get the shot 65% of the time like you sometimes can with autofocus. Look for a bird that is flying from a ways off, pray it comes towards you at a good angle, and track it all the way down/pre focus. Also, use a tripod collar. I dont ever shoot subjects that can move on 3 dimensions because its too cumbersome to move the set up around and keep the subject in the frame. However, i keep the tripod collar on the lens and keep the tripod mounting plate attached to the collar. This lets me rotate the ring a little easier because my palm is not on the ring etc. I have yet, out of probably 20 frames thus far, to get a sharp in flight picture of bird. Now, maybe 1 or 2, but they all had something wrong with them as well (fence, tree, botched exposure, etc). It is extremely difficult. tomorrow, when i get my film developed, i expect to finally have some descent pictures of birds flying. The other thing you can do with digital, not always so much with film, is to shoot at higher ISO's to give you more flexibility to close down the apperture and get a logner DOF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_koffend Posted October 25, 2013 Share Posted October 25, 2013 <p>I don't know any bird suitable lens that focuses from 5 feet to infinity? About the only lenses I know of with that focus distance are super wide angle or fisheye lenses.<br> At a distance of 200 feet (from subject to camera) at f16 a 400mm lens has a DOF of less than 25 feet and an 800mm lens of roughly 5 feet. Bring that subject closer to the camera by 100 feet and that DOF is pretty much cut in half! At 30 feet a 600mm lens at f16 DOF won't cover the wing span of a large bird, or in many cases the head to tail span.</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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