Have a new CPP-2, ready to start E6, need "organization" advice

[jil_tardiff]

Hi all,

 

<p>

Film continues to take over my household. Now both of the teenagers are

shooting MF (Rolleicord Vb for one, Holga for the other) and I have been

fiddling with 4x5.

<p>

All B&W so far, inversion and BTZS tubes for me. Everyone is having a good time,

as the developing started to pile up my husband bought us a CPP-2 + lift. An

interesting "family" gift for sure, but I'm not complaining! And I had been

holding out on any color slide work, but now I am definitely going to give it a

shot. From the outset, this has little or nothing to do with saving processing

costs per se, we all simply enjoy the process and want to branch out.

<p>

 

He left the "accessories" for me to buy and while I have a good idea of what I

need for the basics, I have a few questions (especially regarding E6 chemical

"management")

<p>

 

So for you folks who have "been there, done that" how would you approach the

following? Again, this is mostly from the E6 perspective, I will obviously buy

an extra set of bottles to do our B&W if we have "big batches" and don't want to

stick with inversion for those. The CPP-2 will also allow us to move processing

into the basement as opposed to the brutally hot 3rd-floor bathroom darkroom.

 

<p>

<b>Tanks:</b>

<ol>

<li><b>Expert drum 3010 for the 4x5 + pump </b>(no brainer)</li>

<p>

<li><b>Jobo 2553 tank (5-35, 3-120) + 3 2502 Duo reels </b></li> <br>(I'm a

little on the fence about this regarding the economics of the Kodak 5L kit). I

know that folks make up the E6 chemicals in batches. And 3 reels of MF a shot

makes sense to me from a practicality standpoint. I suppose at some point we

would get some larger film tanks. I'm a bit on the fence here, trying to match

efficiency to economics. Input and suggestions would be great.

</ol><p>

 

<b>E6 Chemicals</b><br>

<p>

OK, I have read a ton of threads and I still don't have a clear approach on how

to optimize the E6 chem usage. Part of the problem is that I haven't picked up

one of the 5L kits yet. Assume I'm going with the Kodak kit. I certainly plan on

stockpiling exposed film (actually, where would you safely store exposed film

for a few weeks, freezer?).

<p>

 

2 Basic scenarios:

<p>

<ol>

<li>We all head out on a Saturday and shoot 2 rolls each for a total of 6 to

process. My guess is that one 500 ml mix from the Kodak kit would cover this.</li>

 

<li>We come back from our planned 3-week trip through some of the upper Midwest

national parks this summer with a ton of film. </li>

</ol>

<p>

 

The latter is obvious-- we would buy the number of kits i think we need based on

the total volume. But say I wanted to buy an E6 kit to last for 2-3 months of

weekend shooting jaunts like in scenario 1, how are the chemicals efficiently

stored? The reason I ask is I am about to place an order with "Specialty Bottle"

for some amber bottles and could order extras if anyone had suggestions.

<p>

 

I'm planning on making a tempering box out of one of our large coolers and a

"drying cabinet" from a nice vinyl hanging suit bag I found.

<p>

 

Any and all suggestions, advice or warnings would be greatly appreciated!

<p>

 

Thanks, <br>

 

JT<div></div>

[ellis_vener_photography]

Do you have E-6 control strips and a color densitometer for reading them?

[jil_tardiff]

Hi Ellis,

 

Actually, I was discussing this with the head of our analytical imaging facility at my university yesterday, came up when we were bantering about Fuji vs Kodak. We had to set up a B&W imaging station (step tablet, etc) in my lab last year and he was quite helpful.

 

They have a densitometer with Status A filters that I can use, probably with the Fuji strips.

 

At some point for convenience's sake I should invest, have a recommendation?

 

JT

[pje]

I process E-6 in my Jobo CPP-2 w/lift. I bought quite a few extra 1L Jobo bottles, I never

seem to have enough (I'm also doing C-41). I use the Tetenal 6 bath 5L kit. I generally

only mix up 1L batches at a time. This allows me to work with smaller amounts of film,

but often I run 5 rolls of 35mm at the same time ( about 600mL). Frequently I process just

2 rolls at a time taking about 250mL. Especially starting out you might want to try 1 or 2

rolls (if you have the small tank), and then go to larger quanities once you feel you have a

grip on the process.

 

I've always left the concentrates in the original bottles and never had a problem. I don't

leave my working solutions around too long and dump them if I don't use them in a

reasonable time periold.

 

I mix everything with distilled water, but for my rinse I use filtered water. I keep my rinse

water in 1L Jobo bottles in an old Jobo tempering bath that I picked up on Ebay. During

rinses I change the water every 30 seconds, so I make sure I have the proper amount of

water at the correct temp on hand.

 

Don't use the stablizer in your processing tank. I use an old SS manual tank and take the

film off the reel and soak it for 1 minute or so. This works for 120 also. For 4x5 I use an

old 5x7 tray.

 

I've processed 35, 120 and 4x5 with this setup and have been pleased.

 

For the 4x5 processing I went with the Jobo 2521 tank and sheet film loader. The Expert

tank seems nice and probably easier to load but more pricey, (even used). Also I think the

Expert tank requires a larger amount of liquid. The 2521 can take 6 sheets of 4x5.

[stephen_allan]

I do pretty much the same as Paul.

 

Considering the economics of doing your own E6 processing, I find that the saving on doing my own 4x5 sheet processing soon pays for the rest of the kit. At 3 - 4 GBP ($5 - $8 US) per sheet (not inc P&P), by the time I have processed around 20 sheets (less than 2 litre of working solns), the rest is basically "free".

[rob_landry]

Jil,

 

The Kodak 5L kit is really the best bet for home processing as it's formulated to give the proper color balance and pH without the need to run control strips and have access to a densitometer. Use the chems one shot and you won't go wrong, of course you can get a second run but you pretty much have to process the second run immediately after.

 

To maximize the efficiency of your kit over the 3 month period, you will probably be fine transferring the remaining concentrates to smaller bottles. Keeping the concentrates between 5-10 degree Celsius will also help reduce oxidation. Personally, I freeze my chemicals in my deep-freeze to prolong them with very good results. Another reason I do this is to eliminate mixing hassles as I only have to mix up the working solutions once when I first open the new kit. I mix the full 5 liters, divide into smaller 1 L bottles and then freeze. When I'm ready to process, I simply take the 6 components out of the freezer, thaw in a sink full of hot water and 15-20 mins. later, I'm ready to process. If you want more detail on this, have a look at some of my previous posts here on photo.net.

 

A tempering bath will make your life easier if you are planning on making a second run without having to wait for the second batch of chems to warm up. I modified my CPP with an extension to have another 10 bottle slots, but a large cooler and an aquarium heater and pump will do just fine.

[g._armour_van_horn]

First, the lid flap on the 5L kit has very easy directions for mixing small quantities. The first three solutions are time sensitive, so you want to mix only as much as you know for sure you will use in ten days. I guess you can extend this by refrigerating, and probably by keeping them in small jars with little or no air, my ten-day rule is based on using 1L bottles.

 

The rest of the solutions will last a lot longer and can be mixed in larger quantities which will save you time.

 

Use everything one-shot except the bleach, which will last a long time if aerated. Buy a ten-dollar acquarium pump and a cheap timer so you can have the pump blow air into your storage jug an hour every day. The bleach represents well over half the cost of the kit, so saving the bleach will save a lot of money.

 

You can use the bleach forever if you replenish it, which basically means that you add a small amount of fresh bleach for every roll you develop. I believe that's 11 ml per 35mm roll. Find a jug big enough to hold 4 liters and mark the level. Use a Post-It or something to make hash marks for every roll (or equivalent) you run. When you have run 20 rolls or so, pour a bit of the bleach into a measuring cup or some other temp container, add 220 ml (20 rolls x 11 ml) of fresh bleach (from that fifth liter in the kit) to the jug, then bring it back to the 4L level from the measuring cup. Dump the excess and start a new Post-It.

 

If you find you're enjoying the process, and I'd bet you will, after you have run through your second 5L kit start buying the individual products in the 5-gallon size. Between the lower price per liter and eliminating the bleach you'll get your chemistry cost down to a buck a roll.

 

Yes, you'll have to recalculate any per-roll numbers above based on your film sizes, I'm spoiled by only running 35mm.

 

I've seen the notes about not running the final rinse through the JOBO, and when I was still using my CPE-2+ I did my final rinse in an open bowl. However, my current processor makes no such recommendation and I can't see any reason why it would make any difference at all, so I recommend running all seven components through the JOBO.

 

If you're going to be running back-to-back batches, remember that you'll want enough reels to run both batches, as the reels need to be bone dry when you load them. Dry tanks might be a good idea, but the reels are critical.

 

When I was doing multiple batches on the same night, and I've run eight or ten batches at a time, I would measure the solutions for the next batch and put it right back in the rack. That is, as soon as I had the First Dev underway, I'd measure the appropriate amount of First Dev into the First Dev bottle and drop it in the first slot. With the volume of water in the tray, and the other five bottles already at temperature, the little heater in the CPE-2+ never had any problem maintaining temp, and the solutions for the next round were all nicely warm when I needed them.

 

Remember that it's only the First Dev that is really critical on time and temp. Bumping the time on the rest of the steps can eliminate a lot of problems. I particularly recommend going to 6 minutes on the Color Dev, particularly if you mixed it a few days before you use it.

 

Good luck,

 

Van

[jil_tardiff]

Guys,

 

This has been a tremendous help, I really appreciate the advice based on accumulated experience, without a doubt it will shorten my learning curve significantly. Especially the small specific tips regarding workflow.

 

Rob-- yup, I had read your threads, as a matter of fact, they were the ones that started me thinking about slowing down a bit and thinking through my first attempt!

 

As I commented, the incentive for this was not necessarily to save $$ over the long run, but to allow myself to learn at my own pace (especially regarding 4x5 color) without the gnawing concerns at the back of my mind over the subsequent processing costs. In the end probably a financial "wash" -- but psychologically easier.

 

Hopefully will be setting up tomorrow after a run to B&H in the AM.

 

Thanks again to all,

 

JT

 

The