Should "Lolita" be used to caption a documentary photograph?

[Nowhereman]

<i>Dude, like lighten up on Reismann, all this demonization, is he now an "evil doer"?

geeeeeeyoddd take some meds. Anyways, how bout this, you guys carry on, like Mssr.

Herbert says, this is getting boring.</i>

<p>

Cute, Barry: you write 16 postings on this subject, which is by far more than anyone else in

this thread, and then ask other people to "lighten up" and decide that, suddenly, it's

boring. I guess it must be boring to read other opinions than your own.

<p>

But, as I find your 16 postings rather boring, here's a picture of a young woman, definitely

not a girl, to whose expression I have not attempted to attribute a title:

<p>

<center><img src="http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/attachments/leica-

m8-forum/38007d1179451975-need-help-getting-such-bokeh-15.-poom-

mean_burnt-.jpg"</center>

<p>

--Mitch/Bangkok

[Uhooru]

Had to come back..no Mitch, its become boring because all the positions have been pretty much laid out and no one's going to change anyone's mind so it starts becoming a rehash of a rehash, and yes, I totally agree with you, my numerous posts are completely, mind numbingly, straight out boring, they're boring me, so if you feel better now with my confession, carry on..or not.

[dave_thielen]

You people really need to get a life. This is the most inane drivel that I have ever had the misfortion of reading. It's a figgin picture, nothing more, nothing less. It means whatever the hell your small minds want it to mean, and it seems that the more polticially correct a person gets, the smaller their mind gets.

[Nowhereman]

This would be funny if ir weren't so pathetic: this isn't about political correctness -- it's

about common decency to a poor child that one photographs. If you cannot see that then

you don't understand the world around you. Reichmann comes off simply as a twit,

nothing else.

 

As for Lolita, Nabakov's book, meaning something else to you, RM L, that is hardly relevant

when to people areound the world it's a synonym for paedophilia, despite the

incorrectness of that label as far as the book is concerned. An example of political

correctness would be if Lolita could not be published today, or the photographer who is

stopped from taken pictures at a childrens' playground.

 

--Mitch/Bangkok

[vivek iyer]

This appears to be drifting in to a personal sling match.

 

I do disagree with Remy and his analysis of this issue.

 

Mitch, I am sorry to see the first line in your last post. No need for that, IMO.

[sven_ochan]

I am outraged to read the ridiculous Boris Cumanso's reference to Aarhus as being

"slightly dull".

 

The beautiful and unique city of Aarhus is not for nothing known as the Pearl of The Baltic!

How could any city that boasts the world's fifth largest fish processing plant be described

as dull? In addition to this we stage the bi-annual Puffin Madness Festival, a riotous

fortnight of good food, good drink, and pagan dancing.

 

On behalf of the entire city of Aarhus I invite you all (other than the strange Mr Fisher) to

visit us.

 

Mr Sven O'Chan, Tourism Ambassador for Aarhus, the Pearl of the Baltic.

 

ps the good people of Aarhus support the campaign to have Mr Reichmann tarred and

feathered.

[clive1]

<center><img src=http://d6d2h4gfvy8t8.cloudfront.net/5756427-lg.jpg></center>

<em><center>Yesterday's Lolita<em><center>

[marcus carlsson]

Kids in that age don't care about sex and if they stand like that maybe it's because they have seen an advert where a woman stands like it.

 

Man, I'm so fet up with this continues debate. Soon, my baby girl will not be able to eat a banana out in public!!

 

I agree with the above speakers saying that the title should be removed and actually photoghraphies shouldn't need a title at all.

 

/ Marcus

[jeffpolaski]

Just curious: has anyone in this discussion actually ever read the book?

[john_macpherson]

Has anyone actually LOOKED closely at the photograph?

 

Am I the only one who sees her holding something? See my previous post - any comments? After all the comments about the title I'm astonished at the collective lack of response to a query about the image content......

[35mmdelux]

highly inappropriate and ethnocentric use of language. Tells more about photographer than the subject.

[Uncle Goose]

The world just got a little more insane, where is the end of this?? Will it become impossible for the father to put their own childeren in bath without being called a pedo?? In recent years we saw a rise of pedo incidents, not only in the US but also in Europe but let's face it, it's not a new thing, it has been around as long as humanity. I can imagine that photodevelopers may have a lookout but I don't think they should set all alarms off if they encounter nude childeren amoungst the photographs, they should at least discretly contact the proper agency to deal with it further. Now, with the digital age I really think that no pedophile will ever take the disgusting things he does with a film camera, a digital camera gives him the liberty to print the photo's themself without anyone knowing. It's a sad fact but alas a true one.

 

Concerning the Lolita thing: well, lolita can have very different meanings, depending where you see it. Let me explain. In the Gothic/Goth-electro/industrial music scene there is a certain sub movement that they call Lolita also, it's all about dressing like they roughly did some 100 years ago. I included a photo which says more than this explaination.<div></div>

[sprouty]

</I>

Heh, heh, can anyone think of a more appropriate site name than "Uncle Goose" for a thread like this?

<P>

And yes John, it does look like she is holding something now that you mention it.

[clive1]

</em><p align="left"> </p>John, it looks like she's holding a gas cylinder.

[clive1]

</em><p align="left"> </p>Uncle Goose--What your photo describes commonly falls under the "Cosplay" banner. Made in Japan, unsurprisingly.</em><p align="left"> </p>

[Uncle Goose]

It might be called like that in Japan but here in Europe it's know as Lolita. When I started to go out in the Gothic scene some years ago it was still unknown here in europe but the last 2 years it has been in the lift, especially in Holland.

[clive1]

Uncle Goose -- I guess we're both right. According to Wikipedia:

"Gothic Lolita or "GothLoli"; sometimes alternatively "Loli-Goth", is a subcategory of the Lolita

fashion, a street fashion among Japanese female teenagers and, to a lesser extent, men and

young women."

"Outside of Japan, the lolita fashion is still a fringe fashion; however, it has slowly begun to

spread to other countries."

Go <a href=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_Lolita>here for the full

article.</a>

[john_macpherson]

Clive - you could be right. And if you are would anyone agree that that throws the 'Lolita' pose and caption into some doubt....?

[clive1]

John-

 

If you mean about the roots of Goth Lolita fashion in the West, absolutely not!

 

If you mean about "Lolita" holding what could be a cooking gas cylinder, then certainly! These

things are not light, even when empty, which could account for her "unnatural" pose.

[john_macpherson]

Clive - "the roots of Goth Lolita fashion in the West," - looks to me like they're all the result of black dye!

 

Yes the girl looks to me to be simply holding a cylinder with one hand, and then raising her other arm to her head. To suggest that this is as Reichmann states (I quote)

 

"As can be seen, it shows a very young woman (girl) posing provocatively. It was a candid photograph taken in a moment that passed all too quickly. She knew that she was being photographed and her expression and pose was clearly deliberate."

 

 

Er - perhaps not. Is it just a young girl standing holding a gas cylinder and NOT being provocative, and the whole notion of 'provocation' existing entirely in the head of the photog who later tries to justify the title in the face of some hostility.

 

Of course it may be that Reichmann failed to observe the (possible) gas cylinder too.

[clive1]

John,

 

I agree. Sounds like bollocks.